https://wiki.mozilla.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=L+Squared&feedformat=atomMozillaWiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T06:12:57ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.27.4https://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:L_Squared&diff=19860User:L Squared2005-06-07T18:45:21Z<p>L Squared: </p>
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<div></div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=8427SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-06-07T18:43:02Z<p>L Squared: </p>
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<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
A list of supporters is kept here. Everyone who wants to support the Suite is welcome to enter his or her name here. Programmers, don't forget to [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=Mozilla+Application+Suite&keywords=helpwanted&bug_status=NEW&order=Bug+Number query Bugzilla] for bugs that need fixing. Testers, don't forget to [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=Mozilla+Application+Suite&keywords=qawanted&bug_status=NEW&order=Bug+Number query Bugzilla] for bugs that need investigation.<br />
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<strong>NOTE</strong>, however that this is <u>not</u> a petition, and by adding your name to this page you are telling us that you have the time to actually help with at the very least one of the "What you can do" items. If you thought this was a petition upon first signing, you are welcome to remove your name.<br />
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We currently have http://web262.server2.dce4u.de/sub_seamonkey/wikicounter.php?this_is_an.png supporters listed!<br />
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{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" style="border-collapse:collapse; width:100%;"<br />
! style="width: 13em;" | Name<br />
! What I could do...<br />
|-<br />
| AAber, Fer[mailto:aaber@hotmail.com '' '']<br />
| General QA and Testing, thinking about porting it to .NET<br />
|-<br />
| Accettura, Robert[mailto:robert@accettura.com '' ''][http://robert.accettura.com '' '']<br />
| JS, XUL, bug triage, pretty much where ever needed. I've already committed to having the reporter webtool support SeaMonkey, and will ensure that continues.<br />
|-<br />
| Almeida, Lopo Lencastre de[http://www.humaneasy.com '' '']<br />
| General QA & Testing (Linux), CSS+JS <br />
|-<br />
| Angiolani, Massimo[mailto:massimoangiolani@libero.it '' ''][http://www.galaxyos.cjb.net '' '']<br />
| Testing (Linux/Windows XP), in the future I will contribute to the localization and developing in C++.<br />
|-<br />
| Arthur, Justin T.[mailto:justinarthur@ieee.org '' ''][http://justinarthur.deepstructure.info/projects/mozilla/seamonkey.html '' '']<br />
| JavaScript, XML/XUL/RDF/etc., C++, CSS, QA & Testcases, Linux and Windows Testing<br />
|-<br />
| Arthur, Peter[mailto:petera@robotii.co.uk '' '']<br />
| Optimisation, Bug Fixing, QA and Testcases on Windows (98,2000,XP).<br />
|-<br />
| Avasthi, Binny[mailto:binny(at)avasthi.com '' '']<br />
| Testing, C++, Java, Mail, bug fixes, code reviews<br />
|-<br />
| Azhar, Tahir[mailto:tazhar@student.cs.uwaterloo.ca '' '']<br />
| Testing, C++, XUL<br />
|-<br />
| Banner, Mark[mailto:bugzilla(at)standard8.demon.co.uk '' ''][http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Standard8 '' '']<br />
| JS, C++, a little XUL, with focus on address book and mailnews. Testing on Linux.<br />
|-<br />
| Bastos, Renato Nunes[mailto:rnbastos@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| I can help in the Project Management (maybe I could help leading a small group, focused in a specific part of the suite, or a set of bugs / features...) and maybe I can do some minor debug/test/coding...<br />
|-<br />
| Belan, Larry[mailto:larrybpsu@netscape.net '' '']<br />
| General QA & Testcases, Linux/Win/OS/2 Testing<br />
|-<br />
| Benson, Karl[mailto:karl@dallarel.com '' '']<br />
| CSS, QA, and Testcases on Mac OS X and Windows XP<br />
|-<br />
| Bergsagel, Paul[mailto:pbergsagel@shaw,ca '' '']<br />
| QA Testing, Bug Reporting Mac OS X<br />
|-<br />
| Biesinger, Christian[mailto:cbiesinger@web.de '' '']<br />
| Bugfixing, implement features.<br />
|-<br />
| Boeker, Marc[mailto:marc@living-site.net '' ''][http://me.at6.net/ '' '']<br />
| Documentation (german) / QA (linux) / CSS HTML / translation<br />
|-<br />
| Book, Carsten (Tomcat)[mailto:carstenbook@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Bug-Triage, QA, Testing, HelpFiles, Documentation, FAQ.<br />
|-<br />
| Borggraefe, Stefan[mailto:Stefan.Borggraefe@gmx.de '' '']<br />
| Make new core features available to the SeaMonkey frontend, fix frontend bugs.<br />
|-<br />
| Bounds, Stephen[mailto:GuruJ@mbox.com.au '' ''][http://preferential.mozdev.org/ '' '']<br />
| XUL and JavaScript frontend work, (maybe) Windows install packages.<br />
|-<br />
| Braniecki, Zbigniew[mailto:gandalf_AT_aviary.pl '' ''][http://www.e-gandalf.net/ '' '']<br />
| Source l10n, some toolkit mozapps work.<br />
|-<br />
| Brooks, Daniel[mailto:db48x@yahoo.com '' '']<br />
| mostly front end bugfixes/features<br />
|-<br />
| Bucksch, Ben[mailto:ben.bucksch.news_AT_beonex.com '' ''][http://www.beonex.com/ '' '']<br />
| Development, Release polish, Release management, Infrastructure from Beonex<br />
|-<br />
| Buecherl, Kurt[mailto:dingens@despammed.com '' '']<br />
| Testing (Linux/Windows), JS, XML/HTML and some C/C++<br />
|-<br />
| Chu, Howard[mailto:hyc@symas.com '' ''][http://www.highlandsun.com/hyc/ '' ''][http://www.symas.com '' '']<br />
| JS/XML/C/C++ mailnews (mostly POP3 issues), LDAP/SSL if necessary<br />
|-<br />
| Clark, Aleks[mailto:sweeper@filter.eu.org '' ''][http://sweeper.filter.eu.org '' '']<br />
| QA: FreeBSD, XUL; XML/HTML, Spanish release<br />
|-<br />
| Clark, Bishop[mailto:bishop@platypus.bc.ca '' ''][http://www.platypus.bc.ca/~bishop/ '' '']<br />
| QA: Linux, Win, Unix (AT&T/Xenix) builds.<br />
|-<br />
| Collins, Pete[mailto:pete@mozdevgroup.com '' ''][http://www.mozdevgroup.com '' '']<br />
| I can work on just about anything when I have the free time to contribute ...<br />
|-<br />
| Cooper, Christopher[mailto:christopher.cooper@cox.net '' ''][http://www.cougarkhan.com/ '' '']<br />
| Testing (Linux/Windows), Bug report, Writing documentation: English<br />
|-<br />
| Creutziger, Martin (MMx)[mailto:mmx_moz@c-comm.de '' ''][http://tesla.afthd.tu-darmstadt.de/~mmx/weblog '' '']<br />
| localized OS X binaries until source l10n is in place, OS X builds, testing and QA as needed and time avaliable.<br />
|-<br />
| Cuenze, Mariano[mailto:marianocuenze@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| I can contribute with xul, xml, js, css, xbl, rdf(basic) and some c/c++ develop.<br />
|-<br />
| Damien "tuX" THEBAULT[mailto:tuxxx@laposte.net '' '']<br />
| Testing (linux), French translation, html, some C/C++ coding<br />
|-<br />
| Darren, (dmb)[mailto:dmbtech@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Linux builds, Linux qa, Possible roadmap design, testing, documentation.<br />
|-<br />
| Desperrier, Jean-Marc (jmdesp)[mailto:jmdesp@alussinan.org '' ''][http://jmdesp.free.fr/ '' '']<br />
| Backend bug fixing. Some organisational ideas : See [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]].<br />
|-<br />
| DiLuminoso, Vito (fizzicist)[mailto:fizzicistDELETETHIS@mac.com '' ''] <br />
| OS X testing, help documentation, bizarre graphix<br />
|-<br />
| Dobbins, John[mailto:john@brandxcomputers.com '' '']<br />
| UI Design, Marketing.<br />
|-<br />
| Domingos, Vitor[mailto:vd(at)paradigma.pt '' ''][http://paradigma.pt/~vd/wlog '' '']<br />
| Marketing, UI Engineering, Release Notes, Localization (Portuguese).<br />
|-<br />
| Dowling, Mark[mailto:markdowling@eircom.net '' '']<br />
| Testing, documentation (Win9x/XP, English).<br />
|-<br />
| Dubner, Michael[mailto:dubnerm@gmail.com '' ''][http://www.dubnerm.newmail.ru '' '']<br />
| JS/XML, C++, Python :-), Windows testing<br />
|-<br />
| Düsterloh, Karsten (Mnyromyr)[mailto:seamonkey@mnyromyr.de '' ''][http://mnenhy.de/ '' '']<br />
| Backend/frontend bug fixing, with focus on mail/news and sidebar/searching.<br />
|-<br />
| Evans, Aaron[mailto:aarone@klamathsystems.com '' ''][http://klamathsystems.com/users/aarone '' '']<br />
| Testing, technical documentation, UI design, been meaning to get into the code. I want to see good contacts and calendar in the suite. And easy XPCOM scripting.<br />
|-<br />
| Falkingham, Jeffrey[mailto:jeff@servicesolution.com '' ''][http://www.servicesolution.com/ '' '']<br />
| Project management, QA Testing, Triage, JavaScript, Linux, Windows & Mac Testing<br />
|-<br />
| Fenwick, Charles[mailto:clf03f@fsu.edu '' '']<br />
| Bug triage, testing, etc.<br />
|-<br />
| Fischer, Tobias[mailto:tobias-fischer@web.de '' '']<br />
| Bug triage, QA Testing (Windows, Linux)<br />
|-<br />
| Fletcher, Scott (Alias: ZookQValem)[mailto:ZookQValem@yahoo.com '' '']<br />
| JS/HTML/CSS/PHP, Testing (Win32, Linux - soon), bug triage, clean up bugs, testcase, willing to help to fix/improve the composer. Can do little for QA but not alot.<br />
|-<br />
| Gautherie, Serge[mailto:gautheri@noos.fr '' '']<br />
| Mostly simple C++/CSS/JS/XUL/&co; testing bugs on Windows.<br />
|-<br />
| Glanz<br />
| Testing, debugging (pinpointing and isolating) on all platforms ((Windows,Linux (all), BSD (all including DragonFly)) Can also help with French Localizations.<br />
|-<br />
| Gontijo, Régis Fernandes[mailto:regisfg@yahoo.com.br '' '']<br />
| Brazilian Portuguese Localization<br />
|-<br />
| Graves, Aaron (cajunman4life)[mailto:cajunman4life.NOSPAM.@gmail.com '' ''][http://cajunman4life.sytes.net/ '' '']<br />
| Linux/Solaris/Windows testing, bug reports and triage, documentation/help files, QA, project and release coordination, HTML, and open to suggestions<br />
|-<br />
| Grull, Sven[mailto:seamonkey.spam@grull.com '' '']<br />
| Bug triage, testing (Windows)<br />
|-<br />
| Guibert de Bruet, Andre (andygui)[mailto:mozilla@properkernel.com '' ''][http://bling.properkernel.com/freebsd '' '']<br />
| FreeBSD Porting & Testing<br />
|-<br />
| Haase, Ralph[mailto:Ralph_Haase@web.de '' '']<br />
| Testing (Win, OS/2) , misc things (html, Graphics, Icons)- but not programming.<br />
|-<br />
| Harter, Jürgen (JiHa)[mailto:masterod@web.de '' '']<br />
| I'm not a programmer, but I can help with all the other stuff like testing, QM, PM, translation, docu...<br />
|-<br />
| Hassouneh, Samer[mailto:shassouneh@yahoo.com '' '']<br />
| Testing (Win/Linux). C++, JS, HTML/XML. Arabic Localization.<br />
|-<br />
| Hatlak, Jens[mailto:jh@junetz.de '' ''][http://jens.hatlak.de/ '' '']<br />
| Building and testing on Linux, Sparc/Solaris; testing on Windows. I'm not a programmer.<br />
|-<br />
| Hauner, Adam[mailto:aha@czilla.cz '' '']<br />
| Bug triage, testing.<br />
|-<br />
| Hendriks, Patrick[mailto:patrick.hendriks+bugzilla@gmail.com '' ''][http://patrickhendriks.com/ '' '']<br />
| General QA, bug triaging, testing Win/Lin/OS X, Translation to dutch or norwegian. A bit of coding.<br />
|-<br />
| Hendy, Michael[mailto:hendikins@mozdev.org '' ''][http://wolfox.f2o.org/ '' '']<br />
| Can assist with enduser documentation (including PluginDoc[http://plugindoc.mozdev.org '' '']), testing on Linux, and can provide a tinderbox if needed.<br />
|-<br />
| Hermes, Stefan (stefan_h)[mailto:stefan_h@hem.utfors.se '' '']<br />
| Testing, QA (Mac OS X). Simple XUL/CSS fixes, Help Viewer/doc.<br />
|-<br />
| Herrera, Daniel[mailto:dahem0n@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing, Spanish translation, and could learn other things.<br />
|-<br />
| Heynen, Holger (holle)[mailto:haddh@gmx.de '' '']<br />
| localization (german): FAQ's, helpfiles, program, etc.; testing (windows 2000)<br />
|-<br />
| Horne, Colin[mailto:colin.horne@gmail.com '' ''][http://www.colinhorne.co.uk/ '' '']<br />
| Programming (C++, JS), testing (Linux), documentation (English), development resources (I have several servers at my disposal)<br />
|-<br />
| Hurley, Christopher[mailto:mozWiki@mirrormere.com '' '']<br />
| Win32-en (Windows 2000) Testing, Documentation, Bug triage?<br />
|-<br />
| Hô, Alexandre (Xandrex)[mailto:xandrex_mozWiki@m4x.org '' '']<br />
| Testing (win32), L10N (FRN), faq, doc & help files, misc (what others don't want to do)<br />
|-<br />
| Isabel, Dawn[mailto:mozwiki@dawnandgreg.com '' '']<br />
| Q/A, test cases, documentation<br />
|-<br />
| Jared Sutton[mailto:jpsutton@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| I'm currently a student. I can do a lot of testing (Win32/Linux/OSX). Also, I'm in the midst of learning C/C++ and also Java/JS.<br />
|-<br />
| Jay (Scarrow)[mailto:crowkeep@yahoo.com '' ''][http://users.imag.net/~crowkeep/mozilla/mozilla.html '' '']<br />
| Theme maintenance, XHTML+CSS, Web/UI design, Testing(Windows XP), Documentation (English) Editing/Proofreading. <br />
|-<br />
| Jeter II, Daniel[mailto:djeter@dixie-net.com '' '']<br />
| I can do testing and bug-reporting under Win32.<br />
|-<br />
| Johnson, Lloyd (Lloydy)[mailto:lloydjohnson@gmail.com '' ''][http://www.lloydy.id.au/ '' '']<br />
| Web Design, Web Coding, Invision Power Board Expert, Testing, Writing Documentation etc.<br />
|-<br />
| Jonas Geiregat[mailto:jonasg@octoz.org '' '']<br />
| C++ JS and Xul, but mainly C++. I'm interested in the bookmark manager !<br />
|-<br />
| Jurdzik, Gunnar (Gunnar) [http://mozilla.gunnars.net '' '']<br />
| Online support /help - already run the Mozilla Help Site (unofficial), usability testing, could also supply feedback from users who mailed me through my site.<br />
|-<br />
| Kaiser, Robert[mailto:kairo@kairo.at '' ''][http://mozilla.kairo.at/ '' '']<br />
| Localization stuff, I'd like to do some UI design review, perhaps some theming work, perhaps some project management stuff (all as needed)<br />
|-<br />
| Kalla, Adrian[mailto:adrianer@tlen.pl '' ''][http://adrianer.jogger.pl/ '' '']<br />
| Localization stuff, QA&Testing (Win32&Linux), ), faq, doc & help files, Win32 and Linux Installers building experience, basic html/xhtml, css and js<br />
|-<br />
| Keller, R.J.[mailto:rj.keller@beonex.com '' ''][http://rj.pcblaze.com/ '' '']<br />
| I'd like to rewrite most of the Help Viewer and Help documentation and maybe find a way to integrate the Firefox/XUL toolkit into Seamonkey.<br />
|-<br />
| Kieling, Konrad[mailto:kkieling@users.sourceforge.net '' '']<br />
| XUL and JS. If I'll find the time to study the code, I'll do some C++ as well.<br />
|-<br />
| KLAPEK[mailto:klapek@w.pl '' '']<br />
| testing (Linux), bug reporting <br />
|-<br />
| Krohlas, Sven[mailto:sven@asbest-online.de '' ''][http://krohlas.de '' '']<br />
| testing (Linux), bug triaging, bug reporting, translation (English -> German), security contact<br />
|-<br />
| Kropac, Honza[mailto:honza@kropac.net '' ''][http://www.netelements.cz/ '' '']<br />
| JS, CSS, XHTML and little of XUL. Could help with testing on Win32 and BeOS.<br />
|-<br />
| Kunz, Andreas[mailto:durbacher@gmx.de '' '']<br />
| Testing (Win, some Linux), bug triaging, bugfixing depending on spare time (JS, CSS, XUL, some C++; quite familiar with the UI, less with core).<br />
|-<br />
| Lambalgen, Sander van[mailto:svl_bmo_wiki(at)juima.org '' '']<br />
| Bug triaging, testing; serious intent to finally dedicate more time to writing patches (mailnews frontend, or wherever I see something I hope to be capable of).<br />
|-<br />
| Landemaine, Charles-André[mailto:landemaine.R.E.M.O.V.E.gmail.com '' ''][http://www.landemaine.com/ '' ''][http://www.auriance.net/ '' '']<br />
| I can help with graphic design, redesigning all icons to make the suite eye-candy. I can work on usability to improve the GUI, I already created a logo and a new name for the suite [http://auriance.com/docs/teleport.png '' ''], I work in web design and build tableless web sites in XHTML Strict & CSS.<br />
|-<br />
| Lee, Jeff (jtek)[mailto:drowzee99@gmail.com '' ''][http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Jtek '' ''][http://jtekusa.helphousehosting.info/ '' '']<br />
| Testing (Windows-en), faq, documentation & help files. Not a programmer, but would like to help out any way I can.<br />
|-<br />
| Lewars, Alistair[mailto:alistair.lewars@verizon.net '' '']<br />
| Performing bug triage and writing test cases. Bug fixing. XUL, JS, and C++ work.<br />
|-<br />
| Linder, Robert[mailto:linder.robert@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| At this time I can help with testing and bug reports for the Linux builds.<br />
|-<br />
| Lissy, Alexandre[mailto:lissyx@infos-du-net.com '' '']<br />
| May help to debug, under Windows and/or Linux. Could also give help for l10n (french).<br />
|-<br />
| Liu, Darrel[mailto:dazhil@hotmail.com '' '']<br />
| C++ (not familiar with the core code though), JavaScript, XUL, HTML/CSS, Testing on Win32.<br />
|-<br />
| Luiz, Fabio (falcon_dark)[mailto:luiz.fabio@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Brazilian Portuguese Localization and GNU/Linux testing. Also OS/2 Warp 4 testing if needed.<br />
|-<br />
| Lujan, Brandon[mailto:brandon.lujan@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Linux testing, Distribution specific testing/localization, documentation, Q&A, bug reports, release coordination, and whatever else needs done.<br />
|-<br />
| Magnini, Giacomo (prometeo)[mailto:giacomo.magnini@portalis.it '' '']<br />
| Italian translator, testing, QA, Documentation (Help). Win32/Linux.<br />
|-<br />
| Maier, Kurt H.[mailto:karmaflux@gmail.com '' ''][http://www.madleet.net '' '']<br />
| I would *love* to assist rewriting the documentation. Also can help with Afrikaans localization, some Xhosa localization, theming, and QA on linux-x86 and Windows.<br />
|-<br />
| Maijala, Ere[mailto:emaijala@kolumbus.fi '' '']<br />
| C++ development, esp. Win32 (incl. reviews), some MailNews, Finnish localization perhaps.<br />
|-<br />
| Mainz, Roland[mailto:roland.mainz@nrubsig.org '' '']<br />
| Testing on OpenSolaris, Printing front&backend (translucency!), Calendar, Gopher<br />
|-<br />
| Marshall, Owen[mailto:irixman@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Bug triage, documentation, QA. Can assist with Linux and IRIX.<br />
|-<br />
| Massey, Jim[mailto:massey@stlouis-shopper.com '' '']<br />
| I can do just about anything needed. Familiar with most aspects of the suite.<br />
|-<br />
| McBride, Mathew[mailto:matt@mcbridematt.dhs.org '' '']<br />
| Linux/GTK2, Windows testing, XUL, CSS, some JavaScript. <br />
|-<br />
| McKee, John[mailto:webmaster@smoothj.net '' '']<br />
| Testing, documentation (English), some C/C++. <br />
|-<br />
| Mellem, Dan[mailto:dan.mellem(at)pusd.org '' '']<br />
| Triage, test cases, QA, documentation.<br />
|-<br />
| Miata, Felix[mailto:mrmazda@ij.net '' ''][http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/ '' '']<br />
| Multi-platform testing & triage, documentation, TE, end-user installation & support, and more.<br />
|-<br />
| Michalopoulos, Kostas[mailto:badsector@slashstone.com '' '']<br />
| I can work on C++ and JavaScript. Note, however, that i don't know much about SM's internals, so i'll learn as i progress. On the other hand, i have plenty of free time :-).<br />
|-<br />
| Milbourn, Zachary[mailto:kujila@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing on Windows XP, minimal C++ & PHP knowledge, HTML/CSS, bug reports.<br />
|-<br />
| Mueller, Dirk (ZeroMC)[mailto:zeromc@web.de '' '']<br />
| Testing on Linux & BeOS, Bug report, Writing documentations/FAQs, Translation, JS/XUL/CSS/etc.<br />
|-<br />
| Murray, Dave (irongut)[mailto:irongut@vodafone.net '' '']<br />
| Not a C++ hacker but I can do XML and JS and I'd be up for QA and bug triage. For more info see my [[User:irongut|user page]].<br />
|-<br />
| Neal, Ian[mailto:bugzilla@arlen.demon.co.uk '' '']<br />
| XUL, XML and JS stuff and very minor C++<br />
|-<br />
| Neelakandan, Sriram[mailto:sriramneelakandan@yahoo.com '' '']<br />
| GFX and Widget layers (especially GTK+ & X). I have been looking at the code for some time now (4 months)<br />
|-<br />
| Nikulin Pavel aka FUBAr[mailto:nikulinpi@helios-tv.ru '' ''][http://fubar.ymod.ru '' '']<br />
| ABugz, testing, ru loc, ru doc, ru sup, comunity sup, concep dev, UI stuff, design, comunity cooperation <br />
|-<br />
| Opitz, Alexander (opi)[mailto:opi@gmx.at '' ''][http://www.opiswelt.de/ '' '']<br />
| Syncing xpfe/toolkit, MNG, testrunner<br />
|-<br />
| Opitz, Michael[mailto:opitz.michael@inode.at '' '']<br />
| Bug triage, testing (win32/linux), Localization<br />
|-<br />
| OstGote[mailto:ostgote@gmx.net '' '']<br />
| Bug triage, testing (win32)<br />
|-<br />
| Pakdipan, Sirawit[mailto:sirawit@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Thai Localization,Linux/Windows Testing,Promotion<br />
|-<br />
| ParadigmK[mailto:krang@despammed.com '' ''][http://www.paradigm-city.com/ '' '']<br />
| Testing (Win32), C++, JavaScript<br />
|-<br />
| Parknert, Mikael[mailto:mikael@parknert.se '' ''][http://www.parknert.se/ '' '']<br />
| Trying to learn mailnews hacking<br />
|-<br />
| Payne, Michael[mailto:michaelnp@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Some documentation, Linux/MacOSX Testing<br />
|-<br />
| Peswani, Sundeep (merlin)[mailto:sundeep.peswani@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| JS+CSS, C++, documentation (English), QA<br />
|-<br />
| Piglas, Milosz[mailto:piglasm@pf.pl '' '']<br />
| testing (GNU/Linux, w32), Documentation (Polish)<br />
|-<br />
| Poduval Gokul[mailto:poduval@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing (linux), Documentation (English), Maybe coding<br />
|-<br />
| Quintanilla, Rogelio[mailto:rogelio.quintanilla@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| QA, Testing (win32), Localization (Spanish)<br />
|-<br />
| Randers-Pehrson, Glenn[mailto:glennrp@imagemagick.org '' '']<br />
| PNG, MNG, ZLIB, maybe JPEG maintenance and support<br />
|-<br />
| Rantwijk van, HJ[mailto:bugs4hj@netscape.net '' ''][http://multizilla.mozdev.org/ '' '']<br />
| The MultiZilla developer, ready to write, review and add new code/features!<br />
|-<br />
| Rashbrook, Neil[mailto:neil@parkwaycc.co.uk '' ''][http://neil.rashbrook.org/ '' '']<br />
| Looks like I'm going to be lumbered with all of your review requests!<br />
|-<br />
| rbahaguejr[mailto:rbahaguejr@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Gnu + Linux / Window Testing, reporting bugs, documentation, Filipino translation<br />
|-<br />
| Reimer, Manuel[mailto:mreimer@despammed.com '' ''][http://www.mreimer.de.sr/ '' '']<br />
| With my current knowledge I could do some work at XUL and Javascript.<br />
|-<br />
| Renard, Benoît<br />
| Testing on Windows 95. In the not-so-distant future, C++ and possibly XUL.<br />
|-<br />
| Rickkins[mailto:Snik@snailmail.ch '' '']<br />
| Testing, I guess. No coding skills, but willing to do whatever.<br />
|-<br />
| Romano[mailto:truebullies@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing on Win 2K/XP and OS X, project management<br />
|-<br />
| Rosenberg, Doron[mailto:doronr@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Moving over to Toolkit, Chrome/XPCOM development.<br />
|-<br />
| Russell, Rick (RickRussellTX)[mailto:rickrussell@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| QA Testing (MacOS X, Windows), limited coding skills but willing to try<br />
|-<br />
| Sahambi, KDS[mailto:k.sahambi@gmx.net '' '']<br />
| Q&A, Documentation (collaborated with RJ), and maybe a little bit of coding (C++, JS).<br />
|-<br />
| Salgueiro, Dave[mailto:dsalgueiro@hotmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing, I UPDATED YOUR MOZILLA 2.0 SYNC WIKI PAGES (crappily)<br />
|-<br />
| Scholler, Denis[mailto:cosmik.debris@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| QA, Testcases, Linux Testing, light Java, C/C++ coding<br />
|-<br />
| Schultz, Andrew[mailto:ajschult@verizon.net '' '']<br />
| Linux installer and general QA<br />
|-<br />
| Schwab, Hermann[mailto:hhschwab@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| QA, Testcases, Win98 testing<br />
|-<br />
| Shinde, Onkar[mailto:onkarshinde@rediffmail.com '' ''][http://onkarshinde.tripod.com/ '' '']<br />
| Don't know much of C++. Currently working in Java/J2EE. Would like to do testing (specifically bug filing). Also would like to learn the build process.<br />
|-<br />
| Siddiqi, Abdullah[mailto:insaneabd@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Learning programming. In the meantime can help with everything else. Testing, documentation. Will keep this project alive. <br />
|-<br />
| Simovic, Vladimir (Perun)[mailto:info@perun.net '' ''][http://www.perun.net/ '' '']<br />
| All the Stuff what a non-programmer can do: testing (Win32-german), docu, helpfiles etc.<br />
|-<br />
| Stephens, Jon (Zontar)[mailto:jon@hiveminds.net '' ''][http://www.hiveminds.org/ '' '']<br />
| QA/Testing (HTML/CSS/JS/DOM/XML/SVG) - Linux, Win32, Solaris/x86; PHP/MySQL webstuff; docs; evangelism; might be interested in learning to build from source.<br />
|-<br />
| Stile, D [http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Dstile '' '']<br />
| English-German Translation and Documentation; QA, Bug Triage, Testcases and Builds on Linux/Windows<br />
|-<br />
| Tarlano, Anthony[mailto:pyxpcom@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| JS/XML, C++, Python, XUL<br />
|-<br />
| Taskin, Kemal[mailto:kemal.taskin@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing (Linux), c/c++ coding<br />
|-<br />
| Thipsongkhroh, Attasit[mailto:attasit.t@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing (Win32), Thai documents translation, little bit JavaScript.<br />
|-<br />
| Thomas, Chris[mailto:cst@andrew.cmu.edu '' ''][http://ctho.ath.cx/ '' '']<br />
| Various bug fixes, new features, backports from Firefox or extensions. I guess I'm fairly familiar with tabbrowser, among other things.<br />
|-<br />
| Trembly, Eric[mailto:entrembly@adelphia.net '' '']<br />
| Testing (win32/en)<br />
|-<br />
| Tyndall, Mark[mailto:seamonkey@tyndall.org.uk '' '']<br />
| Testing (win32/en), docs; I'm up for bug triage and QA<br />
|-<br />
| Uhrig, David C.[mailto:david@twintop-tahoe.com '' ''][http://www.twintop-tahoe.com/ '' '']<br />
| C++ coding if needed, Website Maintenance/Development (PHP/Perl and mySQL), Windows/Linux/BSD Testing, Writing/Maintaining/Updating Documentation<br />
|-<br />
| Ursenbach, Jon[mailto:mako@medievalbattles.com '' '']<br />
| Marketing, documentation, HTML/DHTML, PHP, bug testing (Win and Unix).<br />
|-<br />
| Ustohal, Jan[mailto:sway@tucnacek.com '' '']<br />
| Bug testing (Win), promotion, HTML.<br />
|-<br />
| Uytterhaegen, Julien[mailto:ikou@ikou-online.com '' '']<br />
| Graphic designer documentation and user-interface / french translation<br />
|- <br />
|-<br />
| Vincent, Alexander J.[mailto:ajvincent@gmail.com '' ''][http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/weirdal/ '' '']<br />
| DOM Inspector, XBL-based widgets in general, front-end hacking, experimenting with new features such as SVG, documentation (release notes?)<br />
|-<br />
| Vincent, Xavier (Nomax)[mailto:nomax@arcadebelgium.be '' '']<br />
| Testing, french translation, promotion, ...<br />
|-<br />
| Warpozio[mailto:warpozio@yahoo.com '' '']<br />
| I can do almost everything, except writing code (windows [XP, XP64 & 2K] plus limited Linux) -> Dutch plus English & French), <br />
|-<br />
| Weilbacher, Peter[mailto:mozilla@Weilbacher.org '' ''][http://weilbacher.org/Mozilla/ '' '']<br />
| I can work on UI (XUL+JS), am interested in porting FF features, and to optimize the prefs dialog. I will also create builds on OS/2 and compare with Linux.<br />
|-<br />
| Whalen, Thomas[mailto:thewhalens@linuxmail.org '' '']<br />
| Documentation, a little JavaScript, testing, grammar-checking, PHP/MySQL, UI design<br />
|-<br />
| Wiese, Wolfgang[mailto:xwolf@xwolf.de '' ''][http://www.xwolf.de/ '' '']<br />
| Testing on WinXP, Solaris, SuSE Linux, german translations, image/icon creation<br />
|-<br />
| Wildt, Daniël de[mailto:dewildt@gmail.com '' '']<br />
| Testing (win32), bug triage, little bit C++.<br />
|-<br />
| Winterkvist, Mikael[mailto:mw@csc.se '' ''][http://www.csc.se '' '']<br />
| Testing, Bug Reports, FAQs and support in English/Swedish, Distribution<br />
|-<br />
| Wood, Justin (Callek)[mailto:Callek@gmail.com '' ''][http://www.livejournal.com/users/callek/ '' '']<br />
| Willing to do C++ wherever needed, XUL+JS+CSS etc where I can find the cause of an issue as well. Willing to devote my primary Build (My Most Used) to a Seamonkey Branch, to help find and fix bugs. [Windows User]<br />
|-<br />
| Yamin, Tim (plasmaroo)[mailto:plasmaroo@gentoo.org '' '']<br />
| C++ Code review, coordination, Linux QA.<br />
|-<br />
| Yojik77[mailto:yojik77@club-internet.fr '' '']<br />
| Testing, Bug report, Writing documentation, Translation, Proselytism { Win9x & Debian/Linux :: English & French<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Localisation ===<br />
<br />
Here are localisation teams that are '''not''' going to stop working on localisation of the Mozilla Application Suite. <br />
<br />
* [http://www.czilla.cz/ CZilla] - Czech<br />
* [http://frenchmozilla.sf.net/ Frenchmozilla] - French<br />
* [http://mozilla.kairo.at/ SeaMonkey deutsch] - German<br />
* [http://www.mozilla.or.kr/products/mozilla1.x Seamonkey Korean] - Korean<br />
* [http://www.mozillapl.org/ MozillaPL] - Polish<br />
* [http://mozilla.org.tr Mozilla Türkiye] - Turkish</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Name_And_Version&diff=7419Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version2005-04-23T14:28:19Z<p>L Squared: /* Product Name */ ???</p>
<hr />
<div>== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
----<br />
'''The project council (a.k.a. "suite drivers") has decided on a project name now. We're submitting that name as a US trademark through Mozilla Foundation, and we have to wait for clearance from their lawyers before announcing it publicly. Please stay tuned!'''<br><br />
See [http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1333010#1333010 mozillaZine forums] for a longer story about that. --[[User:KaiRo|KaiRo]] 16:51, 23 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
----<br />
It's been a month, and my tuner is starting to drift with no signal to lock on to. And people said we didn't need to rush into the naming issue? --[[User:L Squared|L2]] 07:28, 23 Apr 2005 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: There's a first statement of the project management on all this name discussion out, see [http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1321975#1321975 mozillaZine forums] -- [[User:KaiRo|KaiRo]] 19:20, 18 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Proposition to move discussion ===<br />
Why don't we create a new talk page, something like Talk:SeaMonkey:Naming to hold this discussion? -- [[User:Irixman|Irixman]] 10:17, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: I don`t think it`s the right time for a naming discussion. IMHO we should first clear the Situation, build the Team and the "Team-Structure" and than we could discuss about a Name :-) -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 12:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: I'd have to agree with Tomcat. Besides which, I really have no qualm with the ''SeaMonkey'' moniker. <br />
:: However, I do agree that this place is getting a little cluttered. This Wiki interface doesn't appear to be very well structured for holding threaded discussions. As such, per Irixman and Johann's suggestions, all discussion would likely benefit greatly by remaining in the [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine'''. - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
If you feel we don't/can't deal with the name isue now, what name do you propose we use in all the help files? This will need to be done before the release. [[User:L Sqiared|L2]]<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. -- [[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
: To add to the Name discussion, Something like *zilla can't be used. The zilla thing is trademarked by someone else. He gaved Mozilla the ok to use the name but als mentioned, that they won't no new *zilla products. Also please do not spam this wiki discussion and please think about something else as the name yet. We firstly need a core team and spokesperson. We will let you informed, how you can help the X Suite product, besides of the normal bugzilla help, testing nightlies and so on.<br />
<br />
: And for information please don't change the comment order, use : to move your text a bit to left if you comment a comment (or use more : do move more left). And sign every comment with -- <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (2 minus and 4 tildes) on the end. So all will be more readable. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
: There are aleady an application named "Teleport" Link: http://www.tenmax.com/teleport/pro/home.htm This is a web downloader like wget, but for windows and with GUI. The project seems to be half-dead (i use the version 1.29 already 6 years). [[User:Yozhhh|Yozhhh]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
----<br />
Let's not call it Gecko Internet Toolkit.. We don't want to be marketing GIT. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
SeaWolf<br />
<br />
-- [[User:HJ|HJ]] Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 9:20:48 AM PST<br />
<br />
Seamona or seaMona : a ''mona'' is a ''she-monkey'' in spanish, but it also means ''cute''<br />
<br />
-- [[User:RobinHood|RobinHood]] 16:42, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
MozSuite or MoZuite or Mozuite or MoSuite (update: blah ... should have read the whole page and the forum on MozillaZine first, but my suggestions still stand)<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Amused|Amused]] 18:07, 26 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===WebZilla===<br />
<br />
Just my small idea similar to one above... "WebZilla"<br />
Not much different...short and suite...<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rickkins|Rickkins]]<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
I disagree with the point 2, on the [http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html Mozilla Trademark Policy] they encourage the name of ''community editions'' to localized protects, and also allows the use of the Moz prefix to related projects. We could blend this and use the name:<br />
<br />
MozCommunity Suite<br />
<br />
--[[User:Dahem0n|Dahem0n]] 10:27, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Yes, it's my understanding that Moz- names are acceptible. Names with -zilla will likely be challenged by the owners of the Godzilla trademark and our legal budget at the moment seems to be $0; I'd say that anything with -zilla is out. It's also my understanding that we can't use Gecko in the name either.<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 07:09, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===engine suite===<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"<br />
<br />
===mSuite===<br />
Why not use something simple like "mSuite" or similar ?<br />
<br />
===voting===<br />
Perhaps we could collect some names here and I could temporarly host a voting system as soon as we haven enough names. Then everyone could vote for the name he likes best.<br />
<br />
== Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive ==<br />
<br />
In an effort to unify the tangled name gathering process, a thread has been opened for proposing suggestions in a cohesive, organized fashion, over on Mozillazine.<br />
<br />
[http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=234325&highlight= Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive]<br />
<br />
The list will eventually be moved here to its own page, for perusal and consideration by those who will be steering the project.<br />
<br />
Please come and contribute your ideas.<br />
Thank you.<br />
:: - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
:But remember, MoFo is providing us with lots of resources, including Bugzilla, Tinderbox, and lots of internals. Personally, I don't think we should try to anger them! See my post about their naming rules. Our best bet is probably a new, unique name at a version 1.0 release --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
"MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8."<br />
:Can you cite evidence for this? In my opinion, 1.8 is the most obvious and appropriate version number - it is after all the same program. I think the facts that the name isn't "Mozilla" and that it's not mentioned on Mozilla 1.x's product page will prevent any confusion. --[[User:Greg K Nicholson|Greg K Nicholson]] 13:57, 13 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
::This has been discussed on the seamonkey newsgroup [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey/browse_thread/thread/7c9c274484ad138b/0f0852fd6606444c?q=mozilla+version+mozsuite+1.8#0f0852fd6606444c] -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:24, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't. However, we can do version step ups at a higher rate, and eventually match Gecko's version when it hits 2.0.<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
* Friendly Name -- Like MacOS/Microsoft does (Tiger, Longhorn, XP, NT, etc). ie. "Seamonkey Internet Suite: Rebellion". Then, in later releases, we could start matching gecko versions again (once it's clear that Seamonkey isn't supported by MoFo. ie "Seamonkey 1.10" w/Gecko 1.10, "Seamonkey 1.11" w/Gecko 1.11, "Seamonkey 2.0" w/Gecko 2.0.<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
L2, I agree. I think we need a new name and a 1.0 release. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I agree a 1.0 release is the best option. The upgrade version can get a 0.8 advance towards our version 2.0, making it 1.8. [[user:dahem0n|dahem0n]]<br />
<br />
I prefer 2.0: there are so many releases with 1.0, also think about situation when users talks about Suite 1.4 and Seamonkey 1.4 - which of them is Mozilla Suite? So better is skip 1.8 and 1.9 and start with 2.0. We're not on beggin. [[user:Adamhauner|Adam Hauner]]<br />
<br />
1.9.0 would be a great compromise between 1.0, the prohibited 1.8, and 2.0. By going with 1.9.0, I believe 2.0 could still be the toolkit version and we still have room to increment between 1.9.0 and 2.0. -- [[User:Bret|Bret]]<br />
<br />
:Sounds like a stable release, not a completely new or untested product, doesn't use the disallowed 1.8 and leaves 2.0 for a toolkit version. I agree this is the best compromise. --[[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I suggest to use 0.2. This is supposed to be the toolkit based suite, right? And we're miles away from that. Once that is done (say, foo is based on gecko 2.0), this project may have 1.0 status. I do expect some rough edges on the way to toolkit, so indicating that this is a less stable version might be good. --[[User:AxelHecht|Axel Hecht]]<br />
<br />
Axel, fact, that Suite is based on toolkit, is not too important for users. For them is actual Suite normal mature product.<br />
[[user:Adamhauner|Adam Hauner]]<br />
<br />
==A decision has been made==<br />
[http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1333010#1333010 KaiRo has spoken]: the new name has been decided and will be announced when the lawyers say so. The first release will be version 1.0. The project's group of leaders (formerly known as ''Seamonkey drivers'') will be known as the ''"Project" council''. -- [[User:Greg K Nicholson|Greg K Nicholson]] (the messenger)</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey/QA_Areas&diff=5093Talk:SeaMonkey/QA Areas2005-03-30T14:24:32Z<p>L Squared: RFI</p>
<hr />
<div>AJ, or someone, could you give us green horns a rundown on QA, please? [[User:L Squared|L2]] 06:24, 30 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
What is triage, exactly?<br />
<br />
I gather that a smoke test is a precise series of steps to check a build.<br />
<br />
What is a bug day?<br />
<br />
Are results entered in bugzilla?</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Template:SeaMonkey-Resources&diff=4928Template:SeaMonkey-Resources2005-03-22T20:22:02Z<p>L Squared: Correct addition of Branding</p>
<hr />
<div>{| border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" align="right" style="margin-left:1em; background:#e3e3e3;border: 1px solid #ccc;"<br />
|- bgcolor="#e3e3e3"<br />
! Resources<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Home_Page|SeaMonkey Homepage]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Project_Organization|Organization]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Project_Goals|Goals]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Supporters|Supporters]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Reasons|Reasons]]<br />
{| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 100%;"<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [irc://irc.mozilla.org/seamonkey IRC Chat]<br />
| style="text-align: right; font-size: 0.8em;" | [http://www.hg23.at/~robert/thebot-logs/seamonkey-index.xml Logs]<br />
|}<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page|Discussion]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [[Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version|Branding]]<br />
|}</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Template:SeaMonkey-Resources&diff=4888Template:SeaMonkey-Resources2005-03-22T20:05:18Z<p>L Squared: Add Name and Version</p>
<hr />
<div>{| border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" align="right" style="margin-left:1em; background:#e3e3e3;border: 1px solid #ccc;"<br />
|- bgcolor="#e3e3e3"<br />
! Resources<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Home_Page|SeaMonkey Homepage]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Project_Organization|Organization]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Project_Goals|Goals]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Supporters|Supporters]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Reasons|Reasons]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [[SeaMonkey:Name and Version|Branding]]<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
{| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 100%;"<br />
|- bgcolor="#EEEEEE"<br />
| [irc://irc.mozilla.org/seamonkey IRC Chat]<br />
| style="text-align: right; font-size: 0.8em;" | [http://www.hg23.at/~robert/thebot-logs/seamonkey-index.xml Logs]<br />
|}<br />
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"<br />
| [[Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page|Discussion]]<br />
|}</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:WikiUpgrade&diff=4783Talk:WikiUpgrade2005-03-20T20:19:20Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>stuff that was put in pre's before to stand out like code now just flows inline which kind of looks like crap with the new css. --[[User:Pavlov|Pavlov]] 23:53, 18 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
:Does anyone have an example of what the PRE style used to look like? If so, I can get it setup --[[User:StevenGarrity|StevenGarrity]]<br />
::Try [http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:_P84QAiQ2yMJ:wiki.mozilla.org/wiki/Update:Development:Templates+site:wiki.mozilla.org+code+sample&hl=en Update:Development:Templates] from the Google cache (use [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=site%3Awiki.mozilla.org+code+sample+development+templates+php+array&btnG=Search this Google search] if the cache link doesn't work right). --[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] 15:56, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Page titles don't show up anywhere inside the page anymore (you have to look at the title bar :gasp: ). --[[User:Justdave|Justdave]] 00:00, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
:Fix for this is on its way. --[[User:StevenGarrity|StevenGarrity]]<br />
:: Fix received and installed. --[[User:Justdave|Justdave]] 05:49, 20 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
On [[Special:Recentchanges]] the toolbox links (RSS and Atom) look weird - don't follow the cavandish style --[[User:Csogilvie|Csogilvie]] 01:24, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
In monobook, the color of the Discussion tab would change if no one had created the discussion page yet. In Cavendish, you can't tell without actually clicking on the tab to see if there's anything there. --[[User:Justdave|Justdave]] 01:59, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Email addresses now show the entire mailto: link before the envelop icon, and spam-proofing them with & #64; doesn't work anymore. See [[SeaMonkey:Supporters]] --Sander 02:39, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The content area seems very much smaller than in other themes, can we tweak it somehow to get back some space there again? E.g. the left and right empty borders could be much smaller, and I guess the nac bar could be smaller as well (font size?). I wonder what it look like on a 800x600 screen... --[[User:KaiRo|KaiRo]] 10:22, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
On a 800x600 screen the edit page simply doesn't fit. [[User:L Squared|L2]] 12:19, 20 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The Go/Search buttons in the page header are incorrectly styled; they should look like the Go button in the main www.m.o style. --[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] 16:51, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The default background color needs to be set to white, because the page doesn't look good if a user's default bg color is not white ([https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286939 bug 286939]) --[[User:Biesi|Biesi]] 06:48, 20 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
It's also a bit hard to navigate, as the main mav is in the middle between personal tools and toolbox and those sections are hard to tell apart.--[[User:KaiRo|KaiRo]] 08:08, 20 Mar 2005 (PST)</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:L_Squared&diff=7189User:L Squared2005-03-20T20:15:08Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>I'm Lyle Gregory Lisle, (first and last pronounced the same, hence L squared.) [mailto:moz@l-squared.biz '' '' ]<br />
<br />
I'm a retired EE with experience in both hardware and software design. <br />
I've done thousands of lines of code in Assembly, Fortran, PL/1, Basic and Forth.<br />
I have no real desire to get into C++, but I am exploring XUL.</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Template_talk:SeaMonkey-Resources&diff=4766Template talk:SeaMonkey-Resources2005-03-19T16:17:40Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>Who changed the template? The Edit page doesn't fit in a 800 pixel window.--[[User:L Squared|L2]] 08:17, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4816Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-19T16:06:34Z<p>L Squared: /* Question - FF & TB under SM? */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Before Anything Else: ==<br />
STOP:<br />
* First, this page is a mess, please can a Wiki expert port all this to seperate organised pages<br />
* A lead Designer and team must be chosen to deal with naming and the thesis behind it. Designer's know that you should never ever let a programmer make all the decisions about an interface - that's why we get things like NS8. If the product name ends up being decided by a vote based on a shortlist of suggested ideas from users, I shall shoot myself. All products should have a name chosen from a thesis thought out by a project designer, ''based on'' suggestions from the community.<br />
* A Wiki Manager should be assigned to control this mess. <br />
<br />
''Kroc Camen''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''From Kroc Camen:''<br />
; Mozilla2 : The software that lays out the pages you see in Firefox and SeaMonkey is known as Gecko. Both Firefox and Seamonkey are User Interfaces that use Gecko to display web pages. Gecko was originally called "Mozilla" when it was developed by Netscape. The Mozilla Foundation was spun off of Netscape to maintain the Mozilla engine (Gecko). This engine has been progressing constantly and is almost at version 1.8. Therefore "Mozilla2" refers to plans for what to include when Gecko reaches the big 2.0 version number. Remember that Gecko is not an Internet browser like Firefox, it is the technology that displays web pages which other programs use. <br />
; "Mozilla Suite" / "Seamonkey" : Seamonkey is the code name for the web browser known as "Mozilla Suite", it uses the Gecko engine to display webpages and has, since it's inception followed the progress of Gecko very closely meaning that SeaMonkey version numbers are identical to Gecko version numbers, e.g. SeaMonkey1.7 uses Gecko1.7 to display web pages.<br />
<br />
Even though SeaMonkey will not have an official 1.8 Release, the gecko engine will continue towards version 2 and this does not affect the SeaMonkey web browser.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''From Mark Dowling:''<br />
; Mozilla2/Gecko 2.0 : If Moz2 is about Gecko shouldn't this process be named Gecko2? Or by retaining this designation is MoFo deliberately causing confusion, forcing the suite to use another name?<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
:: This is completely possible within the Firefox/Thunderbird framework. Open the Options window, move to the Advanced panel, and look at the tabbed browsing options. Change the 'Open links from other applications in' setting to 'A new tab in the most recent window'. Sure, you can't make this Thunderbird-specific, but I'd have to question ''why'' in the world you'd want to make it application-specific. --[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] 21:15, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: But if the next time I want to open it in a new window? It's not as freindly or flexible. --[[User:L Squared|L2]] 08:06, 19 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name & Version ==<br />
<br />
Discussion of Product Name and Version moved to [[Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version|Name and Version]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
-- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
Pedant Warning! :-) You want a ''high'' signal to noise ratio = S/N<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already falling: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. -- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should create more places in the Wiki to post these type things. For instance, a naming discussion page, and a page to discuss new ideas, a place to discuss the core, etc. You are right though; and I am surely contributing to it now ;-) --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
:: The problem with employing this wiki for discussion, with all its arcane formatting conventions and lack of outright, proper delineations between comments, makes for a very cluttered interface. So I don't agree with simply creating more wiki pages. I don't like useing a wiki for carrying on discussions. It isn't geared for it. In many cases, individuals will neglect to either indent their comments, apply proper headers or leave their signature, in which case, everything begins to bleed into a single, senseless, mass of text.<br />
:: We already have [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine''', why not use them? - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
==Resource Needs==<br />
I would suggest that we need two more resource pages here. <br />
<br />
One, an organization chart, with who to go to, who will be reviewing what, and I don't know what else.<br />
<br />
Second, a chrome debugger's tutorial.<br />
It could include:<br><br><br />
1 Preparation - what you need to know, and where to get it.<br><br />
2 Bugzilla proceedures<br><br />
3 Source access and navigating (check out?)<br><br />
4 Proceedures and Tools for Editing<br><br />
5 Proceedures for Debugging<br><br />
??? tinderbox, check-ins ??? what-ever<br />
<br />
It seems we have a lot of volunteers like myself who are technically competent but proceedurally ignorant. If those in the know want our help, you'll need to show us how. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: As there are no changes with the resources yet all old information also applies to the new product we will form. so all infos you need to get the source, compile, and test is found on http://www.mozilla.org/developer/ ... more will come in time. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 08:36, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The other thing it would be nice to have is an explanation of where to go to volunteer. I couldn't find any kind of e-mail addy on the page and I couldn't even figure out how to open a new thread in the discussion to ask.<br />
<br />
Like the OP I'm technically competent (in some areas) but procedurally ignorant.<br />
<br />
--RC<br />
<br />
:There's an explanation of what needs to be done in "The Plan" section. If you don't know how to use Bugzilla, hang out on one of the developer IRC channels. Maybe it would be a good idea to arrange some "bug days", a day of the week specifically set aside for helping new members get up to speed with Bugzilla work. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:39, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Well, I went over to the mozilla.org/developer/ page, but I'm still lost. I have no probelm with Bugzilla, but finding anything in the source is still a mystery to me. It seems that you need to understand the whole app to navigate the source. For instance, I thought I'd use bug 135092 as a test bed for understanding the process. After 30 minutes of digging, I still have no idea where the code is. I thought, well maybe the coding is beyond me, so I'll just look at the help structure, maybe I can do something there. Ha, Ha. I think I (we) need a better road map or a safari guide. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: There are no more docs as on the developers pages. Maybe some special hints are inside this wiki. And this isn't a bug for beginners. The UI thing may be in http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/mailnews/base/resources/content/ but it may, that something else needs changes for this (I'm no mailnews person). And the discussion should be done in MozillaZine forum. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
I'd appreciate that. I've tried to grab the Win32 source from SVC, but it fails rather quickly... I do know how to use Bugzilla at a certain level (probably the only level I need since I have no special privileges). I could definitely do with understanding the Mozilla architecture more though... I'm not sure if anywhere lays that out clearly. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
: For problems, please use the MozillaZine forum, there are users that build SeaMonkey&co self. I think they can help you if you write your problem (with the error messages). Else the cvs checkout howto for SeaMonkey ist on http://www.mozilla.org/cvs.html and normaly it explains enough. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Where on Mozillazine would you suggest raising these questions? We've got General, Builds, Features and Bugs. Nothing for newbie-developers.<br />
I feel like I'm being told to go get lost in the forest. If this project wants to involve new blood, the "if you can't figure it out yourself, don't bother us" attitude has got to change. [[User:L Squared|L2]]]<br />
<br />
:Agree that the figure it out yourself part must stop, and I personally think it is very ff/tb oriented. I remember when I posted my "Why am I not contributing code (yet)" blog, I got a quick and friendly response from a gecko developer with some easy starters and a bit of hand helding when I had questions.For a newbie developer I think 2 things are very importent when trying to get startet:<br />
<br />
# Try and find a area you want to help out in e.g. "backend", browser, mail, adressbook or whatever. That will make it easier for people to point you in the right direction. It is more tricky if you just say "I wanna fix bugs" :-)<br />
# be upfront with what you know beforehand, so that they don't point you to c++ bugs if you only know XUL and stuff like that.<br />
<br />
:Basicly the important part is to minimize the time wasted, because that leaves more time for helping. --[[User:Lynggaard|Lynggaard]] 14:44, 16 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: L2 Hey, Do you want that I make all for you or do you want learn to help? You hada question above and I answered, now you have a new question and tells that we have a "if you can't figure it out yourself, don't bother us" attitude? It's how it was in the school time, the teacher can't tell you all. A Lexicon have only one place to read and not one for beginners and one for the others. And there were many people before you in the same possition. And they learned. First point you should learn, how to arrange in wiki all your answers to komments above in a correct order and don't put all on last position. How to let them go a bit to left, so all will be more readable. Use <nowiki>-- ~~~~</nowiki> on the end of your comment, so your username and Time will be added. To your problem, I think best place is the general forum, cause it's about a feature, but you won't speak about the feature, you will ask about learning. But before starting to dig into the code. Did you get the source of SeaMonkey from cvs? Did you get it compiled? Does it run and looked like a build from mozilla.org? This are points to start before. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 05:18, 17 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<IRMC> [[User:L Squared|L2]] 13:43, 17 Mar 2005 (PST)</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:L_Squared&diff=4777User:L Squared2005-03-17T22:06:10Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>I'm Lyle Gregory Lisle, (first and last pronounced the same, hence L squared.) [mailto:moz@l-squared.biz ]<br />
<br />
I'm a retired EE with experience in both hardware and software design. <br />
I've done thousands of lines of code in Assembly, Fortran, PL/1, Basic and Forth.<br />
I have no real desire to get into C++, but I am exploring XUL.</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4744Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-17T21:43:28Z<p>L Squared: /* Resource Needs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Before Anything Else: ==<br />
STOP:<br />
* First, this page is a mess, please can a Wiki expert port all this to seperate organised pages<br />
* A lead Designer and team must be chosen to deal with naming and the thesis behind it. Designer's know that you should never ever let a programmer make all the decisions about an interface - that's why we get things like NS8. If the product name ends up being decided by a vote based on a shortlist of suggested ideas from users, I shall shoot myself. All products should have a name chosen from a thesis thought out by a project designer, ''based on'' suggestions from the community.<br />
* A Wiki Manager should be assigned to control this mess. <br />
<br />
''Kroc Camen''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''From Kroc Camen:''<br />
; Mozilla2 : The software that lays out the pages you see in Firefox and SeaMonkey is known as Gecko. Both Firefox and Seamonkey are User Interfaces that use Gecko to display web pages. Gecko was originally called "Mozilla" when it was developed by Netscape. The Mozilla Foundation was spun off of Netscape to maintain the Mozilla engine (Gecko). This engine has been progressing constantly and is almost at version 1.8. Therefore "Mozilla2" refers to plans for what to include when Gecko reaches the big 2.0 version number. Remember that Gecko is not an Internet browser like Firefox, it is the technology that displays web pages which other programs use. <br />
; "Mozilla Suite" / "Seamonkey" : Seamonkey is the code name for the web browser known as "Mozilla Suite", it uses the Gecko engine to display webpages and has, since it's inception followed the progress of Gecko very closely meaning that SeaMonkey version numbers are identical to Gecko version numbers, e.g. SeaMonkey1.7 uses Gecko1.7 to display web pages.<br />
<br />
Even though SeaMonkey will not have an official 1.8 Release, the gecko engine will continue towards version 2 and this does not affect the SeaMonkey web browser.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''From Mark Dowling:''<br />
; Mozilla2/Gecko 2.0 : If Moz2 is about Gecko shouldn't this process be named Gecko2? Or by retaining this designation is MoFo deliberately causing confusion, forcing the suite to use another name?<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
:: This is completely possible within the Firefox/Thunderbird framework. Open the Options window, move to the Advanced panel, and look at the tabbed browsing options. Change the 'Open links from other applications in' setting to 'A new tab in the most recent window'. Sure, you can't make this Thunderbird-specific, but I'd have to question ''why'' in the world you'd want to make it application-specific. --[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] 21:15, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name & Version ==<br />
<br />
Discussion of Product Name and Version moved to [[Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version|Name and Version]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
-- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
Pedant Warning! :-) You want a ''high'' signal to noise ratio = S/N<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already falling: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. -- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should create more places in the Wiki to post these type things. For instance, a naming discussion page, and a page to discuss new ideas, a place to discuss the core, etc. You are right though; and I am surely contributing to it now ;-) --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
:: The problem with employing this wiki for discussion, with all its arcane formatting conventions and lack of outright, proper delineations between comments, makes for a very cluttered interface. So I don't agree with simply creating more wiki pages. I don't like useing a wiki for carrying on discussions. It isn't geared for it. In many cases, individuals will neglect to either indent their comments, apply proper headers or leave their signature, in which case, everything begins to bleed into a single, senseless, mass of text.<br />
:: We already have [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine''', why not use them? - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
==Resource Needs==<br />
I would suggest that we need two more resource pages here. <br />
<br />
One, an organization chart, with who to go to, who will be reviewing what, and I don't know what else.<br />
<br />
Second, a chrome debugger's tutorial.<br />
It could include:<br><br><br />
1 Preparation - what you need to know, and where to get it.<br><br />
2 Bugzilla proceedures<br><br />
3 Source access and navigating (check out?)<br><br />
4 Proceedures and Tools for Editing<br><br />
5 Proceedures for Debugging<br><br />
??? tinderbox, check-ins ??? what-ever<br />
<br />
It seems we have a lot of volunteers like myself who are technically competent but proceedurally ignorant. If those in the know want our help, you'll need to show us how. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: As there are no changes with the resources yet all old information also applies to the new product we will form. so all infos you need to get the source, compile, and test is found on http://www.mozilla.org/developer/ ... more will come in time. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 08:36, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The other thing it would be nice to have is an explanation of where to go to volunteer. I couldn't find any kind of e-mail addy on the page and I couldn't even figure out how to open a new thread in the discussion to ask.<br />
<br />
Like the OP I'm technically competent (in some areas) but procedurally ignorant.<br />
<br />
--RC<br />
<br />
:There's an explanation of what needs to be done in "The Plan" section. If you don't know how to use Bugzilla, hang out on one of the developer IRC channels. Maybe it would be a good idea to arrange some "bug days", a day of the week specifically set aside for helping new members get up to speed with Bugzilla work. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:39, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Well, I went over to the mozilla.org/developer/ page, but I'm still lost. I have no probelm with Bugzilla, but finding anything in the source is still a mystery to me. It seems that you need to understand the whole app to navigate the source. For instance, I thought I'd use bug 135092 as a test bed for understanding the process. After 30 minutes of digging, I still have no idea where the code is. I thought, well maybe the coding is beyond me, so I'll just look at the help structure, maybe I can do something there. Ha, Ha. I think I (we) need a better road map or a safari guide. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: There are no more docs as on the developers pages. Maybe some special hints are inside this wiki. And this isn't a bug for beginners. The UI thing may be in http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/mailnews/base/resources/content/ but it may, that something else needs changes for this (I'm no mailnews person). And the discussion should be done in MozillaZine forum. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
I'd appreciate that. I've tried to grab the Win32 source from SVC, but it fails rather quickly... I do know how to use Bugzilla at a certain level (probably the only level I need since I have no special privileges). I could definitely do with understanding the Mozilla architecture more though... I'm not sure if anywhere lays that out clearly. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
: For problems, please use the MozillaZine forum, there are users that build SeaMonkey&co self. I think they can help you if you write your problem (with the error messages). Else the cvs checkout howto for SeaMonkey ist on http://www.mozilla.org/cvs.html and normaly it explains enough. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Where on Mozillazine would you suggest raising these questions? We've got General, Builds, Features and Bugs. Nothing for newbie-developers.<br />
I feel like I'm being told to go get lost in the forest. If this project wants to involve new blood, the "if you can't figure it out yourself, don't bother us" attitude has got to change. [[User:L Squared|L2]]]<br />
<br />
:Agree that the figure it out yourself part must stop, and I personally think it is very ff/tb oriented. I remember when I posted my "Why am I not contributing code (yet)" blog, I got a quick and friendly response from a gecko developer with some easy starters and a bit of hand helding when I had questions.For a newbie developer I think 2 things are very importent when trying to get startet:<br />
<br />
# Try and find a area you want to help out in e.g. "backend", browser, mail, adressbook or whatever. That will make it easier for people to point you in the right direction. It is more tricky if you just say "I wanna fix bugs" :-)<br />
# be upfront with what you know beforehand, so that they don't point you to c++ bugs if you only know XUL and stuff like that.<br />
<br />
:Basicly the important part is to minimize the time wasted, because that leaves more time for helping. --[[User:Lynggaard|Lynggaard]] 14:44, 16 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: L2 Hey, Do you want that I make all for you or do you want learn to help? You hada question above and I answered, now you have a new question and tells that we have a "if you can't figure it out yourself, don't bother us" attitude? It's how it was in the school time, the teacher can't tell you all. A Lexicon have only one place to read and not one for beginners and one for the others. And there were many people before you in the same possition. And they learned. First point you should learn, how to arrange in wiki all your answers to komments above in a correct order and don't put all on last position. How to let them go a bit to left, so all will be more readable. Use <nowiki>-- ~~~~</nowiki> on the end of your comment, so your username and Time will be added. To your problem, I think best place is the general forum, cause it's about a feature, but you won't speak about the feature, you will ask about learning. But before starting to dig into the code. Did you get the source of SeaMonkey from cvs? Did you get it compiled? Does it run and looked like a build from mozilla.org? This are points to start before. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 05:18, 17 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<IRMC> [[User:L Squared|L2]] 13:43, 17 Mar 2005 (PST)</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Name_And_Version&diff=4563Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version2005-03-15T22:29:31Z<p>L Squared: /* Product Name */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Proposition to move discussion ===<br />
Why don't we create a new talk page, something like Talk:SeaMonkey:Naming to hold this discussion? -- [[User:Irixman|Irixman]] 10:17, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: I don`t think it`s the right time for a naming discussion. IMHO we should first clear the Situation, build the Team and the "Team-Structure" and than we could discuss about a Name :-) -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 12:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: I'd have to agree with Tomcat. Besides which, I really have no qualm with the ''SeaMonkey'' moniker. <br />
:: However, I do agree that this place is getting a little cluttered. This Wiki interface doesn't appear to be very well structured for holding threaded discussions. As such, per Irixman and Johann's suggestions, all discussion would likely benefit greatly by remaining in the [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine'''. - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
If you feel we don't/can't deal with the name isue now, what name do you propose we use in all the help files? This will need to be done before the release. [[User:L Sqiared|L2]]<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. -- [[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
: To add to the Name discussion, Something like *zilla can't be used. The zilla thing is trademarked by someone else. He gaved Mozilla the ok to use the name but als mentioned, that they won't no new *zilla products. Also please do not spam this wiki discussion and please think about something else as the name yet. We firstly need a core team and spokesperson. We will let you informed, how you can help the X Suite product, besides of the normal bugzilla help, testing nightlies and so on.<br />
<br />
: And for information please don't change the comment order, use : to move your text a bit to left if you comment a comment (or use more : do move more left). And sign every comment with -- <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (2 minus and 4 tildes) on the end. So all will be more readable. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
: There are aleady an application named "Teleport" Link: http://www.tenmax.com/teleport/pro/home.htm This is a web downloader like wget, but for windows and with GUI. The project seems to be half-dead (i use the version 1.29 already 6 years). [[User:Yozhhh|Yozhhh]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
----<br />
Let's not call it Gecko Internet Toolkit.. We don't want to be marketing GIT. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
SeaWolf<br />
<br />
-- [[User:HJ|HJ]] Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 9:20:48 AM PST<br />
<br />
===WebZilla===<br />
<br />
Just my small idea similar to one above... "WebZilla"<br />
Not much different...short and suite...<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rickkins|Rickkins]]<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
I disagree with the point 2, on the [http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html Mozilla Trademark Policy] they encourage the name of ''community editions'' to localized protects, and also allows the use of the Moz prefix to related projects. We could blend this and use the name:<br />
<br />
MozCommunity Suite<br />
<br />
--[[User:Dahem0n|Dahem0n]] 10:27, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Yes, it's my understanding that Moz- names are acceptible. Names with -zilla will likely be challenged by the owners of the Godzilla trademark and our legal budget at the moment seems to be $0; I'd say that anything with -zilla is out. It's also my understanding that we can't use Gecko in the name either.<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 07:09, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===engine suite===<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"<br />
<br />
===mSuite===<br />
Why not use something simple like "mSuite" or similar ?<br />
<br />
===voting===<br />
Perhaps we could collect some names here and I could temporarly host a voting system as soon as we haven enough names. Then everyone could vote for the name he likes best.<br />
<br />
== Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive ==<br />
<br />
In an effort to unify the tangled name gathering process, a thread has been opened for proposing suggestions in a cohesive, organized fashion, over on Mozillazine.<br />
<br />
[http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=234325&highlight= Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive]<br />
<br />
The list will eventually be moved here to its own page, for perusal and consideration by those who will be steering the project.<br />
<br />
Please come and contribute your ideas.<br />
Thank you.<br />
:: - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
:But remember, MoFo is providing us with lots of resources, including Bugzilla, Tinderbox, and lots of internals. Personally, I don't think we should try to anger them! See my post about their naming rules. Our best bet is probably a new, unique name at a version 1.0 release --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
"MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8."<br />
:Can you cite evidence for this? In my opinion, 1.8 is the most obvious and appropriate version number - it is after all the same program. I think the facts that the name isn't "Mozilla" and that it's not mentioned on Mozilla 1.x's product page will prevent any confusion. --[[User:Greg K Nicholson|Greg K Nicholson]] 13:57, 13 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
::This has been discussed on the seamonkey newsgroup [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey/browse_thread/thread/7c9c274484ad138b/0f0852fd6606444c?q=mozilla+version+mozsuite+1.8#0f0852fd6606444c] -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:24, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't. However, we can do version step ups at a higher rate, and eventually match Gecko's version when it hits 2.0.<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
* Friendly Name -- Like MacOS/Microsoft does (Tiger, Longhorn, XP, NT, etc). ie. "Seamonkey Internet Suite: Rebellion". Then, in later releases, we could start matching gecko versions again (once it's clear that Seamonkey isn't supported by MoFo. ie "Seamonkey 1.10" w/Gecko 1.10, "Seamonkey 1.11" w/Gecko 1.11, "Seamonkey 2.0" w/Gecko 2.0.<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
L2, I agree. I think we need a new name and a 1.0 release. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I agree a 1.0 release is the best option. The upgrade version can get a 0.8 advance towards our version 2.0, making it 1.8. [[user:dahem0n|dahem0n]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Name_And_Version&diff=4554Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version2005-03-15T21:50:44Z<p>L Squared: /* Product Version */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Proposition to move discussion ===<br />
Why don't we create a new talk page, something like Talk:SeaMonkey:Naming to hold this discussion? -- [[User:Irixman|Irixman]] 10:17, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: I don`t think it`s the right time for a naming discussion. IMHO we should first clear the Situation, build the Team and the "Team-Structure" and than we could discuss about a Name :-) -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 12:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: I'd have to agree with Tomcat. Besides which, I really have no qualm with the ''SeaMonkey'' moniker. <br />
:: However, I do agree that this place is getting a little cluttered. This Wiki interface doesn't appear to be very well structured for holding threaded discussions. As such, per Irixman and Johann's suggestions, all discussion would likely benefit greatly by remaining in the [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine'''. - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. -- [[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
: To add to the Name discussion, Something like *zilla can't be used. The zilla thing is trademarked by someone else. He gaved Mozilla the ok to use the name but als mentioned, that they won't no new *zilla products. Also please do not spam this wiki discussion and please think about something else as the name yet. We firstly need a core team and spokesperson. We will let you informed, how you can help the X Suite product, besides of the normal bugzilla help, testing nightlies and so on.<br />
<br />
: And for information please don't change the comment order, use : to move your text a bit to left if you comment a comment (or use more : do move more left). And sign every comment with -- <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (2 minus and 4 tildes) on the end. So all will be more readable. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
: There are aleady an application named "Teleport" Link: http://www.tenmax.com/teleport/pro/home.htm This is a web downloader like wget, but for windows and with GUI. The project seems to be half-dead (i use the version 1.29 already 6 years). [[User:Yozhhh|Yozhhh]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
----<br />
Let's not call it Gecko Internet Toolkit.. We don't want to be marketing GIT. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
SeaWolf<br />
<br />
-- [[User:HJ|HJ]] Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 9:20:48 AM PST<br />
<br />
===WebZilla===<br />
<br />
Just my small idea similar to one above... "WebZilla"<br />
Not much different...short and suite...<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rickkins|Rickkins]]<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
I disagree with the point 2, on the [http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html Mozilla Trademark Policy] they encourage the name of ''community editions'' to localized protects, and also allows the use of the Moz prefix to related projects. We could blend this and use the name:<br />
<br />
MozCommunity Suite<br />
<br />
--[[User:Dahem0n|Dahem0n]] 10:27, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Yes, it's my understanding that Moz- names are acceptible. Names with -zilla will likely be challenged by the owners of the Godzilla trademark and our legal budget at the moment seems to be $0; I'd say that anything with -zilla is out. It's also my understanding that we can't use Gecko in the name either.<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 07:09, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===engine suite===<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"<br />
<br />
===mSuite===<br />
Why not use something simple like "mSuite" or similar ?<br />
<br />
===voting===<br />
Perhaps we could collect some names here and I could temporarly host a voting system as soon as we haven enough names. Then everyone could vote for the name he likes best.<br />
<br />
== Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive ==<br />
<br />
In an effort to unify the tangled name gathering process, a thread has been opened for proposing suggestions in a cohesive, organized fashion, over on Mozillazine.<br />
<br />
[http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=234325&highlight= Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive]<br />
<br />
The list will eventually be moved here to its own page, for perusal and consideration by those who will be steering the project.<br />
<br />
Please come and contribute your ideas.<br />
Thank you.<br />
:: - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
:But remember, MoFo is providing us with lots of resources, including Bugzilla, Tinderbox, and lots of internals. Personally, I don't think we should try to anger them! See my post about their naming rules. Our best bet is probably a new, unique name at a version 1.0 release --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
"MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8."<br />
:Can you cite evidence for this? In my opinion, 1.8 is the most obvious and appropriate version number - it is after all the same program. I think the facts that the name isn't "Mozilla" and that it's not mentioned on Mozilla 1.x's product page will prevent any confusion. --[[User:Greg K Nicholson|Greg K Nicholson]] 13:57, 13 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
::This has been discussed on the seamonkey newsgroup [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey/browse_thread/thread/7c9c274484ad138b/0f0852fd6606444c?q=mozilla+version+mozsuite+1.8#0f0852fd6606444c] -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:24, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't. However, we can do version step ups at a higher rate, and eventually match Gecko's version when it hits 2.0.<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
* Friendly Name -- Like MacOS/Microsoft does (Tiger, Longhorn, XP, NT, etc). ie. "Seamonkey Internet Suite: Rebellion". Then, in later releases, we could start matching gecko versions again (once it's clear that Seamonkey isn't supported by MoFo. ie "Seamonkey 1.10" w/Gecko 1.10, "Seamonkey 1.11" w/Gecko 1.11, "Seamonkey 2.0" w/Gecko 2.0.<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
L2, I agree. I think we need a new name and a 1.0 release. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I agree a 1.0 release is the best option. The upgrade version can get a 0.8 advance towards our version 2.0, making it 1.8. [[user:dahem0n|dahem0n]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4619Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-15T21:47:56Z<p>L Squared: /* Resource Needs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Before Anything Else: ==<br />
STOP:<br />
* First, this page is a mess, please can a Wiki expert port all this to seperate organised pages<br />
* A lead Designer and team must be chosen to deal with naming and the thesis behind it. Designer's know that you should never ever let a programmer make all the decisions about an interface - that's why we get things like NS8. If the product name ends up being decided by a vote based on a shortlist of suggested ideas from users, I shall shoot myself. All products should have a name chosen from a thesis thought out by a project designer, ''based on'' suggestions from the community.<br />
* A Wiki Manager should be assigned to control this mess. <br />
<br />
''Kroc Camen''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''From Kroc Camen:''<br />
; Mozilla2 : The software that lays out the pages you see in Firefox and SeaMonkey is known as Gecko. Both Firefox and Seamonkey are User Interfaces that use Gecko to display web pages. Gecko was originally called "Mozilla" when it was developed by Netscape. The Mozilla Foundation was spun off of Netscape to maintain the Mozilla engine (Gecko). This engine has been progressing constantly and is almost at version 1.8. Therefore "Mozilla2" refers to plans for what to include when Gecko reaches the big 2.0 version number. Remember that Gecko is not an Internet browser like Firefox, it is the technology that displays web pages which other programs use. <br />
; "Mozilla Suite" / "Seamonkey" : Seamonkey is the code name for the web browser known as "Mozilla Suite", it uses the Gecko engine to display webpages and has, since it's inception followed the progress of Gecko very closely meaning that SeaMonkey version numbers are identical to Gecko version numbers, e.g. SeaMonkey1.7 uses Gecko1.7 to display web pages.<br />
<br />
Even though SeaMonkey will not have an official 1.8 Release, the gecko engine will continue towards version 2 and this does not affect the SeaMonkey web browser.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
:: This is completely possible within the Firefox/Thunderbird framework. Open the Options window, move to the Advanced panel, and look at the tabbed browsing options. Change the 'Open links from other applications in' setting to 'A new tab in the most recent window'. Sure, you can't make this Thunderbird-specific, but I'd have to question ''why'' in the world you'd want to make it application-specific. --[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] 21:15, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name & Version ==<br />
<br />
Discussion of Product Name and Version moved to [[Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version|Name and Version]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
-- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
Pedant Warning! :-) You want a ''high'' signal to noise ratio = S/N<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already falling: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. -- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should create more places in the Wiki to post these type things. For instance, a naming discussion page, and a page to discuss new ideas, a place to discuss the core, etc. You are right though; and I am surely contributing to it now ;-) --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
:: The problem with employing this wiki for discussion, with all its arcane formatting conventions and lack of outright, proper delineations between comments, makes for a very cluttered interface. So I don't agree with simply creating more wiki pages. I don't like useing a wiki for carrying on discussions. It isn't geared for it. In many cases, individuals will neglect to either indent their comments, apply proper headers or leave their signature, in which case, everything begins to bleed into a single, senseless, mass of text.<br />
:: We already have [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine''', why not use them? - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
==Resource Needs==<br />
I would suggest that we need two more resource pages here. <br />
<br />
One, an organization chart, with who to go to, who will be reviewing what, and I don't know what else.<br />
<br />
Second, a chrome debugger's tutorial.<br />
It could include:<br><br><br />
1 Preparation - what you need to know, and where to get it.<br><br />
2 Bugzilla proceedures<br><br />
3 Source access and navigating (check out?)<br><br />
4 Proceedures and Tools for Editing<br><br />
5 Proceedures for Debugging<br><br />
??? tinderbox, check-ins ??? what-ever<br />
<br />
It seems we have a lot of volunteers like myself who are technically competent but proceedurally ignorant. If those in the know want our help, you'll need to show us how. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: As there are no changes with the resources yet all old information also applies to the new product we will form. so all infos you need to get the source, compile, and test is found on http://www.mozilla.org/developer/ ... more will come in time. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 08:36, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The other thing it would be nice to have is an explanation of where to go to volunteer. I couldn't find any kind of e-mail addy on the page and I couldn't even figure out how to open a new thread in the discussion to ask.<br />
<br />
Like the OP I'm technically competent (in some areas) but procedurally ignorant.<br />
<br />
--RC<br />
<br />
:There's an explanation of what needs to be done in "The Plan" section. If you don't know how to use Bugzilla, hang out on one of the developer IRC channels. Maybe it would be a good idea to arrange some "bug days", a day of the week specifically set aside for helping new members get up to speed with Bugzilla work. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:39, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Well, I went over to the mozilla.org/developer/ page, but I'm still lost. I have no probelm with Bugzilla, but finding anything in the source is still a mystery to me. It seems that you need to understand the whole app to navigate the source. For instance, I thought I'd use bug 135092 as a test bed for understanding the process. After 30 minutes of digging, I still have no idea where the code is. I thought, well maybe the coding is beyond me, so I'll just look at the help structure, maybe I can do something there. Ha, Ha. I think I (we) need a better road map or a safari guide. [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: There are no more docs as on the developers pages. Maybe some special hints are inside this wiki. And this isn't a bug for beginners. The UI thing may be in http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/mailnews/base/resources/content/ but it may, that something else needs changes for this (I'm no mailnews person). And the discussion should be done in MozillaZine forum. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
I'd appreciate that. I've tried to grab the Win32 source from SVC, but it fails rather quickly... I do know how to use Bugzilla at a certain level (probably the only level I need since I have no special privileges). I could definitely do with understanding the Mozilla architecture more though... I'm not sure if anywhere lays that out clearly. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
: For problems, please use the MozillaZine forum, there are users that build SeaMonkey&co self. I think they can help you if you write your problem (with the error messages). Else the cvs checkout howto for SeaMonkey ist on http://www.mozilla.org/cvs.html and normaly it explains enough. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Where on Mozillazine would you suggest raising these questions? We've got General, Builds, Features and Bugs. Nothing for newbie-developers.<br />
I feel like I'm being told to go get lost in the forest. If this project wants to involve new blood, the "if you can't figure it out yourself, don't bother us" attitude has got to change. [[User:L Squared|L2]]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4551Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-15T20:01:58Z<p>L Squared: /* Resource Needs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Before Anything Else: ==<br />
STOP:<br />
* First, this page is a mess, please can a Wiki expert port all this to seperate organised pages<br />
* A lead Designer and team must be chosen to deal with naming and the thesis behind it. Designer's know that you should never ever let a programmer make all the decisions about an interface - that's why we get things like NS8. If the product name ends up being decided by a vote based on a shortlist of suggested ideas from users, I shall shoot myself. All products should have a name chosen from a thesis thought out by a project designer, ''based on'' suggestions from the community.<br />
* A Wiki Manager should be assigned to control this mess. <br />
<br />
''Kroc Camen''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''From Kroc Camen:''<br />
; Mozilla2 : The software that lays out the pages you see in Firefox and SeaMonkey is known as Gecko. Both Firefox and Seamonkey are User Interfaces that use Gecko to display web pages. Gecko was originally called "Mozilla" when it was developed by Netscape. The Mozilla Foundation was spun off of Netscape to maintain the Mozilla engine (Gecko). This engine has been progressing constantly and is almost at version 1.8. Therefore "Mozilla2" refers to plans for what to include when Gecko reaches the big 2.0 version number. Remember that Gecko is not an Internet browser like Firefox, it is the technology that displays web pages which other programs use. <br />
; "Mozilla Suite" / "Seamonkey" : Seamonkey is the code name for the web browser known as "Mozilla Suite", it uses the Gecko engine to display webpages and has, since it's inception followed the progress of Gecko very closely meaning that SeaMonkey version numbers are identical to Gecko version numbers, e.g. SeaMonkey1.7 uses Gecko1.7 to display web pages.<br />
<br />
Even though SeaMonkey will not have an official 1.8 Release, the gecko engine will continue towards version 2 and this does not affect the SeaMonkey web browser.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
:: This is completely possible within the Firefox/Thunderbird framework. Open the Options window, move to the Advanced panel, and look at the tabbed browsing options. Change the 'Open links from other applications in' setting to 'A new tab in the most recent window'. Sure, you can't make this Thunderbird-specific, but I'd have to question ''why'' in the world you'd want to make it application-specific. --[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] 21:15, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name & Version ==<br />
<br />
Discussion of Product Name and Version moved to [[Talk:SeaMonkey:Name And Version|Name and Version]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
-- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
Pedant Warning! :-) You want a ''high'' signal to noise ratio = S/N<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already falling: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. -- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should create more places in the Wiki to post these type things. For instance, a naming discussion page, and a page to discuss new ideas, a place to discuss the core, etc. You are right though; and I am surely contributing to it now ;-) --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
:: The problem with employing this wiki for discussion, with all its arcane formatting conventions and lack of outright, proper delineations between comments, makes for a very cluttered interface. So I don't agree with simply creating more wiki pages. I don't like useing a wiki for carrying on discussions. It isn't geared for it. In many cases, individuals will neglect to either indent their comments, apply proper headers or leave their signature, in which case, everything begins to bleed into a single, senseless, mass of text.<br />
:: We already have [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine''', why not use them? - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
==Resource Needs==<br />
I would suggest that we need two more resource pages here. <br />
<br />
One, an organization chart, with who to go to, who will be reviewing what, and I don't know what else.<br />
<br />
Second, a chrome debugger's tutorial.<br />
It could include:<br><br><br />
1 Preparation - what you need to know, and where to get it.<br><br />
2 Bugzilla proceedures<br><br />
3 Source access and navigating (check out?)<br><br />
4 Proceedures and Tools for Editing<br><br />
5 Proceedures for Debugging<br><br />
??? tinderbox, check-ins ??? what-ever<br />
<br />
It seems we have a lot of volunteers like myself who are technically competent but proceedurally ignorant. If those in the know want our help, you'll need to show us how. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: As there are no changes with the resources yet all old information also applies to the new product we will form. so all infos you need to get the source, compile, and test is found on http://www.mozilla.org/developer/ ... more will come in time. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 08:36, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The other thing it would be nice to have is an explanation of where to go to volunteer. I couldn't find any kind of e-mail addy on the page and I couldn't even figure out how to open a new thread in the discussion to ask.<br />
<br />
Like the OP I'm technically competent (in some areas) but procedurally ignorant.<br />
<br />
--RC<br />
<br />
:There's an explanation of what needs to be done in "The Plan" section. If you don't know how to use Bugzilla, hang out on one of the developer IRC channels. Maybe it would be a good idea to arrange some "bug days", a day of the week specifically set aside for helping new members get up to speed with Bugzilla work. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:39, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Well, I went over to the mozilla.org/developer/ page, but I'm still lost. I have no probelm with Bugzilla, but finding anything in the source is still a mystery to me. It seems that you need to understand the whole app to navigate the source. For instance, I thought I'd use bug 135092 as a test bed for understanding the process. After 30 minutes of digging, I still have no idea where the code is. I thought, well maybe the coding is beyond me, so I'll just look at the help structure, maybe I can do something there. Ha, Ha. I think I (we) need a better road map or a safari guide. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: There are no more docs as on the developers pages. Maybe some special hints are inside this wiki. And this isn't a bug for beginners. The UI thing may be in http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/mailnews/base/resources/content/ but it may, that something else needs changes for this (I'm no mailnews person). And the discussion should be done in MozillaZine forum. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
I'd appreciate that. I've tried to grab the Win32 source from SVC, but it fails rather quickly... I do know how to use Bugzilla at a certain level (probably the only level I need since I have no special privileges). I could definitely do with understanding the Mozilla architecture more though... I'm not sure if anywhere lays that out clearly. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
: For problems, please use the MozillaZine forum, there are users that build SeaMonkey&co self. I think they can help you if you write your problem (with the error messages). Else the cvs checkout howto for SeaMonkey ist on http://www.mozilla.org/cvs.html and normaly it explains enough. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 06:18, 15 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Where on Mozillazine would you suggest raising these questions? We've got General, Builds, Features and Bugs. Nothing for newbie-developers.<br />
I feel like I'm being told to go get lost in the forest. If this project wants to involve new blood, the "if you can't figure it out yourself, don't bother us" attitude has got to change. [[L Squared|L2]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=4745Talk:SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-03-15T16:14:09Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>Could this list be modified to include BOTH "real" name and nickname(s)? Maybe location, esp. delta-time [[L Squared|L2]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=6645Talk:SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-03-15T16:14:09Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>Could this list be modified to include BOTH "real" name and nickname(s)? Maybe location, esp. delta-time [[L Squared|L2]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:L_Squared&diff=4665User:L Squared2005-03-15T14:17:53Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>I'm Lyle Gregory Lisle, (first and last pronounced the same, hence L squared.) [mailto:moz@l-squared.biz ]<br />
<br />
I'm a retired EE with experience in both hardware and software design. <br />
I've done thousands of lines of code in Fortran, PL/1, Basic and Forth.<br />
I have no real desire to get into C++, but I am exploring XUL.</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4523Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-15T12:38:51Z<p>L Squared: /* Resource Needs */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Before Anything Else: ==<br />
STOP:<br />
* First, this page is a mess, please can a Wiki expert port all this to seperate organised pages<br />
* A lead Designer and team must be chosen to deal with naming and the thesis behind it. Designer's know that you should never ever let a programmer make all the decisions about an interface - that's why we get things like NS8. If the product name ends up being decided by a vote based on a shortlist of suggested ideas from users, I shall shoot myself. All products should have a name chosen from a thesis thought out by a project designer, ''based on'' suggestions from the community.<br />
* A Wiki Manager should be assigned to control this mess. <br />
<br />
''Kroc Camen''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
''From Kroc Camen:''<br />
; Mozilla2 : The software that lays out the pages you see in Firefox and SeaMonkey is known as Gecko. Both Firefox and Seamonkey are User Interfaces that use Gecko to display web pages. Gecko was originally called "Mozilla" when it was developed by Netscape. The Mozilla Foundation was spun off of Netscape to maintain the Mozilla engine (Gecko). This engine has been progressing constantly and is almost at version 1.8. Therefore "Mozilla2" refers to plans for what to include when Gecko reaches the big 2.0 version number. Remember that Gecko is not an Internet browser like Firefox, it is the technology that displays web pages which other programs use. <br />
; "Mozilla Suite" / "Seamonkey" : Seamonkey is the code name for the web browser known as "Mozilla Suite", it uses the Gecko engine to display webpages and has, since it's inception followed the progress of Gecko very closely meaning that SeaMonkey version numbers are identical to Gecko version numbers, e.g. SeaMonkey1.7 uses Gecko1.7 to display web pages.<br />
<br />
Even though SeaMonkey will not have an official 1.8 Release, the gecko engine will continue towards version 2 and this does not affect the SeaMonkey web browser.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
:: This is completely possible within the Firefox/Thunderbird framework. Open the Options window, move to the Advanced panel, and look at the tabbed browsing options. Change the 'Open links from other applications in' setting to 'A new tab in the most recent window'. Sure, you can't make this Thunderbird-specific, but I'd have to question ''why'' in the world you'd want to make it application-specific. --[[User:Waldo|Waldo]] 21:15, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Proposition to move discussion ===<br />
Why don't we create a new talk page, something like Talk:SeaMonkey:Naming to hold this discussion? -- [[User:Irixman|Irixman]] 10:17, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: I don`t think it`s the right time for a naming discussion. IMHO we should first clear the Situation, build the Team and the "Team-Structure" and than we could discuss about a Name :-) -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 12:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: I'd have to agree with Tomcat. Besides which, I really have no qualm with the ''SeaMonkey'' moniker. <br />
:: However, I do agree that this place is getting a little cluttered. This Wiki interface doesn't appear to be very well structured for holding threaded discussions. As such, per Irixman and Johann's suggestions, all discussion would likely benefit greatly by remaining in the [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine'''. - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. -- [[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
: To add to the Name discussion, Something like *zilla can't be used. The zilla thing is trademarked by someone else. He gaved Mozilla the ok to use the name but als mentioned, that they won't no new *zilla products. Also please do not spam this wiki discussion and please think about something else as the name yet. We firstly need a core team and spokesperson. We will let you informed, how you can help the X Suite product, besides of the normal bugzilla help, testing nightlies and so on.<br />
<br />
: And for information please don't change the comment order, use : to move your text a bit to left if you comment a comment (or use more : do move more left). And sign every comment with -- <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (2 minus and 4 tildes) on the end. So all will be more readable. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
: There are aleady an application named "Teleport" Link: http://www.tenmax.com/teleport/pro/home.htm This is a web downloader like wget, but for windows and with GUI. The project seems to be half-dead (i use the version 1.29 already 6 years). [[User:Yozhhh|Yozhhh]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
----<br />
Let's not call it Gecko Internet Toolkit.. We don't want to be marketing GIT. -- [[User:Mithent|Mithent]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
SeaWolf<br />
<br />
-- [[User:HJ|HJ]] Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 9:20:48 AM PST<br />
<br />
===WebZilla===<br />
<br />
Just my small idea similar to one above... "WebZilla"<br />
Not much different...short and suite...<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rickkins|Rickkins]]<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
I disagree with the point 2, on the [http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html Mozilla Trademark Policy] they encourage the name of ''community editions'' to localized protects, and also allows the use of the Moz prefix to related projects. We could blend this and use the name:<br />
<br />
MozCommunity Suite<br />
<br />
--[[User:Dahem0n|Dahem0n]] 10:27, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===engine suite===<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"<br />
<br />
===mSuite===<br />
Why not use something simple like "mSuite" or similar ?<br />
<br />
===voting===<br />
Perhaps we could collect some names here and I could temporarly host a voting system as soon as we haven enough names. Then everyone could vote for the name he likes best.<br />
<br />
== Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive ==<br />
<br />
In an effort to unify the tangled name gathering process, a thread has been opened for proposing suggestions in a cohesive, organized fashion, over on Mozillazine.<br />
<br />
[http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=234325&highlight= Seamonkey Project - Proposed Alternative Name Archive]<br />
<br />
The list will eventually be moved here to its own page, for perusal and consideration by those who will be steering the project.<br />
<br />
Please come and contribute your ideas.<br />
Thank you.<br />
:: - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
:But remember, MoFo is providing us with lots of resources, including Bugzilla, Tinderbox, and lots of internals. Personally, I don't think we should try to anger them! See my post about their naming rules. Our best bet is probably a new, unique name at a version 1.0 release --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
"MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8."<br />
:Can you cite evidence for this? In my opinion, 1.8 is the most obvious and appropriate version number - it is after all the same program. I think the facts that the name isn't "Mozilla" and that it's not mentioned on Mozilla 1.x's product page will prevent any confusion. --[[User:Greg K Nicholson|Greg K Nicholson]] 13:57, 13 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
::This has been discussed on the seamonkey newsgroup [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey/browse_thread/thread/7c9c274484ad138b/0f0852fd6606444c?q=mozilla+version+mozsuite+1.8#0f0852fd6606444c] -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:24, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't. However, we can do version step ups at a higher rate, and eventually match Gecko's version when it hits 2.0.<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
* Friendly Name -- Like MacOS/Microsoft does (Tiger, Longhorn, XP, NT, etc). ie. "Seamonkey Internet Suite: Rebellion". Then, in later releases, we could start matching gecko versions again (once it's clear that Seamonkey isn't supported by MoFo. ie "Seamonkey 1.10" w/Gecko 1.10, "Seamonkey 1.11" w/Gecko 1.11, "Seamonkey 2.0" w/Gecko 2.0.<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
L2, I agree. I think we need a new name and a 1.0 release. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I agree a 1.0 release is the best option. The upgrade version can get a 0.8 advance towards our version 2.0, making it 1.8. [[user:dahem0n|dahem0n]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
-- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
Pedant Warning! :-) You want a ''high'' signal to noise ratio = S/N<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already falling: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. -- [[User:Johann p|johann_p]] 14:43, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should create more places in the Wiki to post these type things. For instance, a naming discussion page, and a page to discuss new ideas, a place to discuss the core, etc. You are right though; and I am surely contributing to it now ;-) --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
:: The problem with employing this wiki for discussion, with all its arcane formatting conventions and lack of outright, proper delineations between comments, makes for a very cluttered interface. So I don't agree with simply creating more wiki pages. I don't like useing a wiki for carrying on discussions. It isn't geared for it. In many cases, individuals will neglect to either indent their comments, apply proper headers or leave their signature, in which case, everything begins to bleed into a single, senseless, mass of text.<br />
:: We already have [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine''', why not use them? - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
==Resource Needs==<br />
I would suggest that we need two more resource pages here. <br />
<br />
One, an organization chart, with who to go to, who will be reviewing what, and I don't know what else.<br />
<br />
Second, a chrome debugger's tutorial.<br />
It could include:<br><br><br />
1 Preparation - what you need to know, and where to get it.<br><br />
2 Bugzilla proceedures<br><br />
3 Source access and navigating (check out?)<br><br />
4 Proceedures and Tools for Editing<br><br />
5 Proceedures for Debugging<br><br />
??? tinderbox, check-ins ??? what-ever<br />
<br />
It seems we have a lot of volunteers like myself who are technically competent but proceedurally ignorant. If those in the know want our help, you'll need to show us how. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: As there are no changes with the resources yet all old information also applies to the new product we will form. so all infos you need to get the source, compile, and test is found on http://www.mozilla.org/developer/ ... more will come in time. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 08:36, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
The other thing it would be nice to have is an explanation of where to go to volunteer. I couldn't find any kind of e-mail addy on the page and I couldn't even figure out how to open a new thread in the discussion to ask.<br />
<br />
Like the OP I'm technically competent (in some areas) but procedurally ignorant.<br />
<br />
--RC<br />
<br />
:There's an explanation of what needs to be done in "The Plan" section. If you don't know how to use Bugzilla, hang out on one of the developer IRC channels. Maybe it would be a good idea to arrange some "bug days", a day of the week specifically set aside for helping new members get up to speed with Bugzilla work. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 05:39, 14 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
Well, I went over to the mozilla.org/developer/ page, but I'm still lost. I have no probelm with Bugzilla, but finding anything in the source is still a mystery to me. It seems that you need to understand the whole app to navigate the source. For instance, I thought I'd use bug 135092 as a test bed for understanding the process. After 30 minutes of digging, I still have no idea where the code is. I thought, well maybe the coding is beyond me, so I'll just look at the help structure, maybe I can do something there. Ha, Ha. I think I (we) need a better road map or a safari guide. [[L Squared|L2]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=4536Talk:SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-03-14T11:56:20Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>Could this list be modified to include BOTH "real" name and nickname(s)? [[L Squared|L2]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4243Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-12T21:25:34Z<p>L Squared: /* Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ? */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Proposition to move discussion ===<br />
Why don't we create a new talk page, something like Talk:SeaMonkey:Naming to hold this discussion? -- [[User:Irixman|Irixman]] 10:17, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: I don`t think it`s the right time for a naming discussion. IMHO we should first clear the Situation, build the Team and the "Team-Structure" and than we could discuss about a Name :-) -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 12:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: I'd have to agree with Tomcat. Besides which, I really have no qualm with the ''SeaMonkey'' moniker. <br />
:: However, I do agree that this place is getting a little cluttered. This Wiki interface doesn't appear to be very well structured for holding threaded discussions. As such, per Irixman and Johann's suggestions, all discussion would likely benefit greatly by remaining in the [http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=3 Seamonkey Forums] over on '''MozillaZine'''. - [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. -- [[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
: To add to the Name discussion, Something like *zilla can't be used. The zilla thing is trademarked by someone else. He gaved Mozilla the ok to use the name but als mentioned, that they won't no new *zilla products. Also please do not spam this wiki discussion and please think about something else as the name yet. We firstly need a core team and spokesperson. We will let you informed, how you can help the X Suite product, besides of the normal bugzilla help, testing nightlies and so on.<br />
<br />
: And for information please don't change the comment order, use : to move your text a bit to left if you comment a comment (or use more : do move more left). And sign every comment with -- <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (2 minus and 4 tildes) on the end. So all will be more readable. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:02, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
===WebZilla===<br />
<br />
Just my small idea similar to one above... "WebZilla"<br />
Not much different...short and suite...<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Rickkins|Rickkins]]<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
I disagree with the point 2, on the [http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html Mozilla Trademark Policy] they encourage the name of ''community editions'' to localized protects, and also allows the use of the Moz prefix to related projects. We could blend this and use the name:<br />
<br />
MozCommunity Suite<br />
<br />
--[[User:Dahem0n|Dahem0n]] 10:27, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===engine suite===<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"<br />
<br />
===mSuite===<br />
Why not use something simple like "mSuite" or similar ?<br />
<br />
===voting===<br />
Perhaps we could collect some names here and I could temporarly host a voting system as soon as we haven enough names. Then everyone could vote for the name he likes best.<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
:But remember, MoFo is providing us with lots of resources, including Bugzilla, Tinderbox, and lots of internals. Personally, I don't think we should try to anger them! See my post about their naming rules. Our best bet is probably a new, unique name at a version 1.0 release --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
L2, I agree. I think we need a new name and a 1.0 release. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I agree a 1.0 release is the best option. The upgrade version can get a 0.8 advance towards our version 2.0, making it 1.8. [[user:dahem0n|dahem0n]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
Pedant Warning! :-) You want a ''high'' signal to noise ratio = S/N<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already rising: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. [[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should create more places in the Wiki to post these type things. For instance, a naming discussion page, and a page to discuss new ideas, a place to discuss the core, etc. You are right though; and I am surely contributing to it now ;-) --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
==Resource Needs==<br />
I would suggest that we need two more resource pages here. <br />
<br />
One, an organization chart, with who to go to, who will be reviewing what, and I don't know what else.<br />
<br />
Second, a chrome debugger's tutorial.<br />
It could include:<br><br><br />
1 Preparation - what you need to know, and where to get it.<br><br />
2 Bugzilla proceedures<br><br />
3 Source access and navigating (check out?)<br><br />
4 Proceedures and Tools for Editing<br><br />
5 Proceedures for Debugging<br><br />
??? tinderbox, check-ins ??? what-ever<br />
<br />
It seems we have a lot of volunteers like myself who are technically competent but proceedurally ignorant. If those in the know want our help, you'll need to show us how. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
: As there are no changes with the resources yet all old information also applies to the new product we will form. so all infos you need to get the source, compile, and test is found on http://www.mozilla.org/developer/ ... more will come in time. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 08:36, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:L_Squared&diff=4526User:L Squared2005-03-12T15:20:15Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>I'm Lyle Gregory Lisle, (first and last pronounced the same, hence L squared.)<br />
<br />
I'm a retired EE with experience in both hardware and software design. <br />
I've done thousands of lines of code in Fortran, PL/1, Basic and Forth.<br />
I have no real desire to get into C++, but I am exploring XUL.</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4198Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-12T15:06:57Z<p>L Squared: /* engine suite */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===engine suite===<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already rising: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. [[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
==Resource Needs==<br />
I would suggest that we need two more resource pages here. <br />
<br />
One, an organization chart, with who to go to, who will be reviewing what, and I don't know what else.<br />
<br />
Second, a chrome debugger's tutorial.<br />
It could include:<br><br><br />
1 Preparation - what you need to know, and where to get it.<br><br />
2 Bugzilla proceedures<br><br />
3 Source access and navigating (check out?)<br><br />
4 Proceedures and Tools for Editing<br><br />
5 Proceedures for Debugging<br><br />
??? tinderbox, check-ins ??? what-ever<br />
<br />
It seems we have a lot of volunteers like myself who are technically competent but proceedurally ignorant. If those in the know want our help, you'll need to show us how. [[L Squared|L2]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4197Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-12T14:47:00Z<p>L Squared: /* Product Name */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===engine suite===<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already rising: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. [[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
==engine suite==<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4196Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-12T14:41:15Z<p>L Squared: /* Suggestions */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
----<br />
Some thoughts that I saw (on mozillazine??) are to relate this to the OO.o project. They're making the office application suite, and seamonkey has always been known as the internet suite. I believe it's a necessity to demonstrate the 'power' of the application, as the suite of tools and the underlying framework that's extensible. Maybe an Acronym?<br />
<br />
OIT (Open Internet Toolbox)<br />
GIT (Gecko Internet Toolbox/Toolkit)<br />
<br />
How about a play on the iPod: iNet! (silly, but it may spur someone else on to something better)<br />
<br />
Some other comments say that the suite is for the Uber-Geeks...maybe we should capitalize on that? Let Fx go for the noob's ;) [[User:larrybpsu|larrybpsu]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
or<br />
Suitemoz <br />
<br />
-- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Rules for names - Before we get stuck into a trap...===<br />
Remember the hassle about the name "Firebird"?<br />
We should avoid that this happens again. Therefore we should make some background-rules before:<br />
# The name shouldn't be in use by another software<br />
# The name shouldn't sound as another known name or trademark (therefor also no "Mozi**"-names)<br />
# If a name gets more as 1000 hits on google, forget it<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:39, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Another idea on gettng names===<br />
On some other OS-projects I am working on, I found out, that all good names in common language are used already. Also all names of historic character (like from the greeks and so on).<br />
I found 2 good sources for names:<br />
# http://www.pantheon.org/ - Ther you can dig in the names in the mythology of many cultures. There are a lot of possibilities. E.g. in the australian mythology... You only habe to search...<br />
# Sindarin - You know "Lord of the Rings"? The elbian language that was defined by Tolkien is a source also for good-sounding names. In german we got a web-portal http://www.sindarin.de - Using Sindarin could help to use the same name like before, but in an not obviously language :)<br />
--[[User:Xwolf|xwolf]] 03:45, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Product Version ==<br />
<br />
MoFo has made it clear that it we can not use v1.8. They want to make sure that the users see no connection between Mozilla and the Seamonkey. Versioning Seamonkey to 1.8 may confuse users into thinking that it's the next version of Mozilla, and thus supported by MoFo.<br />
<br />
Now we are an INDEPENDENT project - MoFo can't say us nothink!<br />
When Phoenix was renamed to Firebird, and Firebird to Firefox the versioning system wasn't changed, so it were an compleatly bad idea that we should begin from null (version 1.0). We should make a version 1.8 or 2.0, but i think 2.0 should be a version based on the tollkit and etc. ;)<br />
--[[User:Adrianer|Adrianer]]<br />
<br />
I think that there are 2 possibilities: 1. 2.0 (Kind of a Next Generation), because there already has been a 1.0+ Suite or 2.) v1.0 because of a "new" Suite from a new Team. -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 06:34, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
While Seamonkey will be a independent project, it will still rely on the tools and services provided by MoFo (Tinderbox, Bonsai, Bugzilla, server space, etc). One can assume that if Seamonkey chose v1.8 for the release version, MoFo would feel less eager to provide us with those tools and services.<br />
<br />
===Suggestions===<br />
* 2.0 -- but i think it is better for a version based on toolkit and with much more changes as this version<br />
* 1.8.0, 1.8.sea, 10.1.8 etc -- Too close to 1.8 for MoFo?<br />
* 1.0 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey is a baby, which it isn't<br />
* 0.9 -- Makes it feel like Seamonkey isn't even stable<br />
<br />
<br />
This issue points to why we need to deal with the label up front as well. Apparently MoFo won't go along with any 1.8 release. If we are to get the next version out soon, we need to agree on what to call it. I suspect that version 1.0 will probably be our best option, and agree with 2.0 being the toolkit version. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
I just would like to remark that the S/N ratio here is already rising: if there is no pointer here that we can provide for people to contribute ideas, make rants etc. I fear the Wiki will drown in noise. I'd rather have the noise somewhere else. [[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
==engine suite==<br />
I think it vill be good and uzer friendly name<br />
"Use engine suite, advance your iPerformance"</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4170Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-12T02:18:40Z<p>L Squared: /* Question - FF & TB under SM? */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB [[User:L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4109Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-11T19:06:54Z<p>L Squared: /* Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ? */</p>
<hr />
<div>__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User;Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4043Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-11T15:27:43Z<p>L Squared: /* Options */</p>
<hr />
<div>__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
<br />
===Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ? ===<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User;Johann_P|Johann_P]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:L_Squared&diff=4200User:L Squared2005-03-11T15:24:58Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div>I'm Lyle Gregory Lisle, (first and last pronounced the same, hence L squared.)<br />
<br />
I'm a retired EE with experience in both hardware and software design. I have no real desire to get into C++, but I am exploring XUL.</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4034Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-11T15:18:20Z<p>L Squared: /* Options */</p>
<hr />
<div>__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [[http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html ]]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4033Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-11T15:16:55Z<p>L Squared: /* Product Name */</p>
<hr />
<div>__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html ]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]</div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=3844SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-03-11T02:59:55Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div></div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=3842SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-03-11T02:58:18Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div></div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=3841SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-03-11T02:47:14Z<p>L Squared: </p>
<hr />
<div></div>L Squaredhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=3715Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-09T15:16:34Z<p>L Squared: Seamonkey vs Moz2</p>
<hr />
<div>Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?</div>L Squared