https://wiki.mozilla.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Vd&feedformat=atomMozillaWiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T07:12:50ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.27.4https://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:Vd&diff=19849User:Vd2005-03-12T02:02:32Z<p>Vd: </p>
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<div>General Roles:<br />
* Marketing<br />
* UI<br />
<br />
<br />
OpenOffice.org Roles<br />
* Marketing Contact and Lead for Portugal<br />
* Co-lead of Art Project<br />
* L10n PT lead and hacker<br />
<br />
<br />
[http://paradigma.pt/~vd/wlog Working Log]</div>Vdhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=SeaMonkey:Reasons&diff=4173SeaMonkey:Reasons2005-03-12T01:58:37Z<p>Vd: </p>
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<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
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I'd like to understand the reasons why people are interested to keep SeaMonkey alive. I know mine (BenBucksch) are very different from those of some users.<br />
<br />
This has major influence on the way we're taking and the change we'll make to SeaMonkey in the future, in all areas: UI, merging with Gecko, infrastructure.<br />
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=Developers=<br />
==bz==<br />
==Neil Rashbrook==<br />
==Christian Biesinger==<br />
<br />
What I want in Seamonkey...<br />
<br />
* I want a browser for "me" not necessarily for "everyone"<br />
** Focus on "power users"<br />
* Less focus on extensions, default install should contain stuff people want<br />
* More control and choice to the user<br />
* Integrated Browser and Mail/News-Client (needs not be same process, but should work well together, share settings, etc)<br />
<br />
==Ben Bucksch==<br />
===Reasons to keep SeaMonkey===<br />
Developed 2 browsers based on it and need to keep them thriving<br />
===Problems with Firefox===<br />
* Extreme instability code-wise (impossible to base derivates on it)<br />
* [http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsblame.cgi?file=mozilla/browser/Attic/README.html&rev=1.10&root=/cvsroot 'We're not accepting patches'] shows [http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:Ir8kaQgapxAJ:weblogs.mozillazine.org/ben/archives/005275.html general attitude of some developers]<br />
===Desired changes to SeaMonkey===<br />
* Leaner UI (at least removing redundant UI)<br />
* make browser and mail client different processes<br />
<br />
<br />
=End Users=<br />
==Owen Marshall==<br />
I can't really lump myself into the developers category; the best I can do is QA and documentation!<br />
<br />
Personally, I prefer the SeaMonkey UI, and the tight integration between each component. I also think Firefox feels more like an exclusionary team rather than an open source project. But that's just me ;-)<br />
<br />
What I would like to see:<br />
* An update feature like Firefox, but a little more intelligent -- for example, in-place upgrading using the XPI's rather than downloading the installer... that may be totally impossible but would be awesome! I may learn Mozilla just to try implementing something like this<br />
<br />
OK, that is what I would really love to see!<br />
<br />
==Davide Baroncelli==<br />
Well, I'd love to contribute, but I'm mainly a java server-side developer, and I'm afraid it would take some time before I could really do something useful for the suite. But I absolutely prefer it to FF: not for the "suite" thing, though: I do prefer the browser. I never use mail (using Eudora), chat (no IRC) or anything else (for web development activities I'd rather use NVU ;) ).<br />
<br />
Why mozilla? Well: <br />
1) Multizilla<br />
2) Multizilla<br />
3) Multizilla<br />
4) Deeper configurability than FF (even wider with Multizilla...)<br />
5) Searches from URL bar<br />
6) Did I mention Multizilla?<br />
<br />
==David Madore==<br />
I can't stand the firefox user interface (the worst offender is the separation of search bar and URL bar: why anyone would actually ''like'' this waste of precious screen estate simply beats me; the sidebar is also pretty useless in comparison to seamonkey's). But it also looks as though many useful mozilla features (aka "bloat") were made into extensions in firefox, and, well, extensions just don't work seamlessly and they're a pain to install (random example, venkman: things may have changed, but last time I checked it didn't work very well with firefox, and probably not at all with thunderbird).<br />
<br />
To summarize, it's not so much that I like seamonkey (though I do, and very much) than that I dislike firefox/thunderbird.<br />
<br />
=Administrators=<br />
==[[User:Xwolf|Wolfgang Wiese]]==<br />
As an administrator in an university I have to install and support software for web, mail, news and so on.<br />
Unlike the combination of Firefox and Thunderbird, the suite is much more admin-friendly, cause its more userfriendly: Users get an intergrated suite and cause of long years Netscape4 and after that Mozilla, they are known to it. Its much easier for users and administrators to set up the proferences of the suite for workstations. Unlike administrators or developers a normal user can't even understand how to call "about:config" or even use it!<br />
Firefox is only helpful for public surfstations, where we dont wan't to provide many functions.<br />
<br />
Also as administrator I cannot argue against users why to install a combination of firefox and thunderbird until they dont show up with the features of the mozilla suite. I have to give my users something that is an improvement against the previous version (what ever its name is). But with firefox - how many plugins will I have to install until I get the features the users already have with mozilla suite? In case of making a choice, i would either stay on mozilla 1.8beta or have a turn to opera...<br />
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= Marketing and UI =<br />
==[[User:vd|Vitor Domingos]]==<br />
As marketing and UI engineer, i must say there are a couple of reasons that we'll like to see going on the Mozilla Suite:<br />
* All-in-one wonder (mozilla+addressbook+mail)<br />
* Perfectly integrated with all the plugins and extensions avaiable<br />
* [http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/emails/NickFagerlund.html Faster than FF]<br />
* Good UI, preferences in place<br />
* Good marketing value so far<br />
* It's my browser since i remember :)<br />
<br />
For the future, I'd like to see more integration with OpenOffice.org, maybe joining efforts in one "true and full" office suite.</div>Vdhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Talk:SeaMonkey:Home_Page&diff=4168Talk:SeaMonkey:Home Page2005-03-12T01:46:54Z<p>Vd: </p>
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<div>{{SeaMonkey-Resources}}<br />
<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Difference between this effort and Mozilla2 ==<br />
<br />
- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?<br />
<br />
Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.<br />
<br />
The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.<br />
<br />
== Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases ==<br />
<br />
I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. <br />
See my user page for that [[User:jmdesp|jmdesp]]<br />
<br />
If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.<br />
<br />
:It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.<br />
:<br />
: Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.<br />
:<br />
: Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
<br />
== Question - FF & TB under SM? ==<br />
<br />
If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...<br />
<br />
MRK<br />
<br />
: This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST) <br />
<br />
Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious.<br />
-[[User:drseuss9311|DrSeuss]]<br />
<br />
: To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- [[User:Mreimer|Mreimer]] 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
: FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
:Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- [[User:Tomcat|Tomcat]] 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release? ==<br />
<br />
Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([http://www.mozillastore.com/products/donations]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.<br />
<br />
You've probably seen this already:<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html]<br />
<br />
"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."<br />
<br />
<br />
What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.<br />
<br />
Dean<br />
<br />
: From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- [[User:irixman|Owen]]<br />
<br />
:: Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- [[User:Opi|Opi]] 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
: I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- [[User:irongut|irongut]]<br />
<br />
== Product Name ==<br />
<br />
There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?<br />
<br />
''Please'', I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz<br />
<br />
Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- [[User:Schapel|Schapel]] 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
=== Branding Restrictions ===<br />
Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]<br />
<br />
: We '''probably won't use the same naming conventions''', as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.<br />
:<br />
: [...]<br />
: <br />
: There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., '''can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark''' [...]<br />
[http://www.mozilla.org/seamonkey-transition.html Transition Plan]<br />
<br />
This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]<br />
===Ana===<br />
<br />
Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word '''ana''' (pronounced <code>/un-ah/</code>) for the new application. ('''Ana''' as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the '''main''' application, Mozilla Suite, who '''gave birth''' to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means ''mother'' (who gives birth), ''base'', ''main'', ''origin'', ''core'', ''essential''. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. [[User:Asteko|Asteko]]<br />
<br />
===The Teleport Suite===<br />
<br />
I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation...<br />
I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:<br />
<br />
http://www.auriance.com/docs/teleport.png<br />
<br />
===Options===<br />
<br />
Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.<br />
<br />
"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.<br />
<br />
The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation<br />
see: [http://www2f.biglobe.ne.jp/~tyoutyou/seamonkey.html]<br />
<br />
We have choices of what kind of name do we want.<br />
<br />
Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk<br />
<br />
Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly<br />
<br />
Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard<br />
<br />
Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)<br />
<br />
Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana<br />
<br />
The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label.<br />
[[User:L Squared|L Squared]]<br />
<br />
===Be careful===<br />
<br />
Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. <br />
For instance, the above suggestion of '''Ana''', while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means '''hole''', in Japanese. <br />
Which of course, would not be auspicious.<br />
<br />
- [[User:Scarrow|Scarrow]]<br />
<br />
<br />
===Some names===<br />
WebMoz<br />
<br />
OpenMoz<br />
<br />
Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)<br />
<br />
Openzilla <br />
<br />
--[[User:Vd|Vd]] 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?==<br />
<br />
I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or<br />
have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with<br />
comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way. <br />
<br />
So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate<br />
them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists<br />
or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. <br />
[[User:Johann_P|Johann_P]]<br />
<br />
The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. [[L Squared|L2]]<br />
<br />
This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --[[User:irixman|irixman]]</div>Vdhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Vd&diff=19848User talk:Vd2005-03-11T20:55:32Z<p>Vd: </p>
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<div>Couple of things to sort out in my area:<br />
- Shall we use mozilla infrastructure for the new Mozilla Suite?<br />
- If you're doing a fork, i believe that we need to move to another structure in the near future.<br />
- We need a marketing and release team<br />
- We need designers for new log<br />
- We need UI designers and Engineers.</div>Vdhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User:Vd&diff=4166User:Vd2005-03-10T11:37:28Z<p>Vd: </p>
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<div>Just adding my working log:<br><br />
http://paradigma.pt/~vd/wlog</div>Vdhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Vd&diff=4108User talk:Vd2005-03-10T11:37:19Z<p>Vd: </p>
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<div></div>Vdhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Vd&diff=3764User talk:Vd2005-03-10T11:36:59Z<p>Vd: </p>
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<div>Just adding my working log:<br><br />
http://paradigma.pt/~vd/wlog</div>Vdhttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=SeaMonkey/Supporters&diff=3766SeaMonkey/Supporters2005-03-10T11:33:02Z<p>Vd: adding myself to the list</p>
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<div></div>Vd