Talk:Thunderbird:Future of Thunderbird - Revision history

Eyalroz: /* Roadmap suggestion: Focus on the backend */

2007-08-04T08:53:46Z

Roadmap suggestion: Focus on the backend

Eyalroz: /* Roadmap suggestion: Focus on backend, features will follow */

2007-08-04T08:52:36Z

Roadmap suggestion: Focus on backend, features will follow

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:52, 4 August 2007
Line 11:		Line 11:
	I would like to suggest an outlook (sorry about the pun) which is almost diametrically opposed to what I've been reading people say on talkbacks, forums, etc.		I would like to suggest an outlook (sorry about the pun) which is almost diametrically opposed to what I've been reading people say on talkbacks, forums, etc.

	Most people's suggestions seem to be about 2 things: Fix their personally-favorite UI bug :-) and add new features - calendaring, instant messaging, etc. I believe that as long as you are just two full-time developers, this is not a good idea. I find that the current tb development community is overstretched as it is. With more resources, feature-set expansion is more reasonable.		Most people's suggestions seem to be about 2 things: Fix their personally-favorite UI bug :-) and add new features - calendaring, instant messaging, etc. I believe that as long as you are just two full-time developers, this is not a good idea. I find that the current Thunderbird development community is overstretched as it is. With more resources, feature-set expansion is more reasonable.

	The alternative, in my view, is to focus on improving tb's back end: ~~disentangle~~ back-end API from the front-end (e.g. the address book, in which AFAICR you have to interact with the address book window to add/remove/manipulate entries~~), add~~ support for more mail storage formats (maildir, databases, maybe even other mail clients' formats), ~~rework~~ some older and cruftier parts of the code (like libmime), allow for real manipulation of messages in code (i.e. have message objects rather than just message header objects)~~, expand~~ the concept of a message to accommodate future work with instant messaging or forums-via-mail-client and other such modes of communication and interaction~~, create~~ a more powerful and more versatile filtering framework~~, et cetera. And let's not forget better~~ code and ~~interface documentation!~~		The alternative, in my view, is to focus on improving Thunderbird's back end:
			# Disentangle back-end API from the front-end, e.g. folder operations which for some reason require msgwindows and require 'selecting' folders, or the address book, in which AFAICR you have to interact with the address book window to add/remove/manipulate entries
			# Allow for more non-UI work to be done outside of the main thread
			# Add support for more mail storage formats (maildir, databases, maybe even other mail clients' formats),
			# Support situations in which multiple processes (or threads) are working on the same mail folders / mail db / etc. at the same time
			# Rework some older and cruftier parts of the code (like libmime)
			# allow for real manipulation of messages in code (i.e. have message objects rather than just message header objects)
			# Expand the concept of a message to accommodate future work with instant messaging or forums-via-mail-client and other such modes of communication and interaction
			# Create a more powerful and more versatile filtering framework
			# Improve the documentation and the readability of backend code and of the innumerable cryptic interfaces and methods.

	I think the focus on 'enabling' work, backend improvement work, should allow more people to get involved with ~~core tb~~ development in general, expand the possibilities of what can be done with extensions, and perhaps even lure people who are now only extension developers to get involved with core development. These last few goals are what I wish to stress the most - even if you disagree with some of the foci I listed in the previous paragraph.		I think the focus on 'enabling' work - backend improvement work - should allow more people to get involved with Thunderbird development in general, expand the possibilities of what can be done with extensions, and perhaps even lure people who are now only extension developers to get involved with core development. These last few goals are what I wish to stress the most - even if you disagree with some of the foci I listed in the previous paragraph.

	== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==		== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==

Eyalroz: /* A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. */

2007-08-04T08:46:16Z

A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:46, 4 August 2007
Line 6:		Line 6:

	* So I agree with lots what you posted, I wouldn't suggest to tie it to one server product, but use existing standards if possible. [[User:Eddyn\|Eddyn]] 13:01, 29 July 2007 (PDT)		* So I agree with lots what you posted, I wouldn't suggest to tie it to one server product, but use existing standards if possible. [[User:Eddyn\|Eddyn]] 13:01, 29 July 2007 (PDT)

			== Roadmap suggestion: Focus on backend, features will follow ==

			I would like to suggest an outlook (sorry about the pun) which is almost diametrically opposed to what I've been reading people say on talkbacks, forums, etc.

			Most people's suggestions seem to be about 2 things: Fix their personally-favorite UI bug :-) and add new features - calendaring, instant messaging, etc. I believe that as long as you are just two full-time developers, this is not a good idea. I find that the current tb development community is overstretched as it is. With more resources, feature-set expansion is more reasonable.

			The alternative, in my view, is to focus on improving tb's back end: disentangle back-end API from the front-end (e.g. the address book, in which AFAICR you have to interact with the address book window to add/remove/manipulate entries), add support for more mail storage formats (maildir, databases, maybe even other mail clients' formats), rework some older and cruftier parts of the code (like libmime), allow for real manipulation of messages in code (i.e. have message objects rather than just message header objects), expand the concept of a message to accommodate future work with instant messaging or forums-via-mail-client and other such modes of communication and interaction, create a more powerful and more versatile filtering framework, et cetera. And let's not forget better code and interface documentation!

			I think the focus on 'enabling' work, backend improvement work, should allow more people to get involved with core tb development in general, expand the possibilities of what can be done with extensions, and perhaps even lure people who are now only extension developers to get involved with core development. These last few goals are what I wish to stress the most - even if you disagree with some of the foci I listed in the previous paragraph.

	== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==		== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==
Line 12:		Line 22:
	# Integrating serverless Instant Messenger retroshare.sf.net to Thunderbird		# Integrating serverless Instant Messenger retroshare.sf.net to Thunderbird
	# Creating a adress book in Thunderbird, which has: emailadress, retroshare-key fields for each contact (copy out line).		# Creating a adress book in Thunderbird, which has: emailadress, retroshare-key fields for each contact (copy out line).
	# creating the online-contact box in the left menue as a contact list for ~~Thunderbrid~~ email, users are offline or online and can be messaged or emailed. So there is no need for a buddylist, it is just the contacts adressbook of Thunderbird, which appears in the write Window and under teh folders in the main window left.		# creating the online-contact box in the left menue as a contact list for Thunderbird email, users are offline or online and can be messaged or emailed. So there is no need for a buddylist, it is just the contacts adressbook of Thunderbird, which appears in the write Window and under teh folders in the main window left.
	# Make a Thunderbird wizard, which picks up email-pop, retroshare cert_user.pem file OR ~~creats~~ an account for retroshare serverless IM.		# Make a Thunderbird wizard, which picks up email-pop, retroshare cert_user.pem file OR creates an account for retroshare serverless IM.

	These five steps to a new Thunderbird future combine both:		These five steps to a new Thunderbird future combine both:

James R at 13:38, 30 July 2007

2007-07-30T13:38:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:38, 30 July 2007
Line 42:		Line 42:

	--CO		--CO

			I think that looking at what makes Microsoft Outlook a popular mailing system might give some clues as to what users consider the basics for their mailing systems.
			I am currently an Outlook user, I installed Thunderbird a month ago but got the impression I was going back to Outlook express.

			Really the functionalities, I think, that make the success of Outlook are :
			- Classified Information (Mails, Calendar and reminders, Contacts)
			- Search options (Search for contacts, and through emails)

			I think if by opening Thunderbird, I had a clear impression that the software was going to deliver those, I would have swapped over.
			Some of the features I wish I could find a mailing application had :
			- Integrated Mail server to email reminders (for a meeting to multiple users for example)
			- Webversion of the standard client. Similar to Microsoft Outlook Web access but integrated into a client version.

			Hope this helps...

			Jeremie

Eddyn: /* No organizational change for now */

2007-07-30T00:18:54Z

No organizational change for now

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:18, 30 July 2007
Line 29:		Line 29:
	== No organizational change for now ==		== No organizational change for now ==

	I suggest to hold off any organizational change (and talks about) for now and focus currently on the results your post might bring. I also suggest to start a discussion on a mailing list for brain storming in order to bring ideas together and see who/where/when can make which commitments. Results from the mailing list should be posted back here including proposals, road map, commitments etc.		I suggest to hold off any organizational change (and talks about) for now and focus currently on the results your post might bring. I also suggest to start a discussion on a mailing list for brain storming in order to bring ideas together and see who/where/when can make which commitments. Results from the mailing list should be posted back here including proposals, road map, commitments etc. (See [http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird/browse_thread/thread/8cadffad86e5bfb3/a08fdc3b085d2991#a08fdc3b085d2991 mailing list entry])
			Once a clear road map and direction is decided, it will be much easier to choose how to proceed and what would be best for the project.

	(I feel that the wiki isn't the right place for discussions and might discourage people from joining forces. The wiki is an excellent place to nail things down once something serious can be posted)		(I feel that the wiki isn't the right place for discussions and might discourage people from joining forces. The wiki is an excellent place to nail things down once something serious can be posted)

Eddyn at 20:01, 29 July 2007

2007-07-29T20:01:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:01, 29 July 2007
Line 4:		Line 4:

	I blogged about this http://www.alexhudson.com/blog/2007/07/26/#thunderbird , primarily because I hack on http://www.bongo-project.org/ and would love to see Thunderbird really take advantage of some of the stuff our server can/could do. Primarily, I think Tbird has to become relevant to business users, even if just small business people, and it seems to me the obvious way to create a product which might generate revenue.		I blogged about this http://www.alexhudson.com/blog/2007/07/26/#thunderbird , primarily because I hack on http://www.bongo-project.org/ and would love to see Thunderbird really take advantage of some of the stuff our server can/could do. Primarily, I think Tbird has to become relevant to business users, even if just small business people, and it seems to me the obvious way to create a product which might generate revenue.

			* So I agree with lots what you posted, I wouldn't suggest to tie it to one server product, but use existing standards if possible. [[User:Eddyn\|Eddyn]] 13:01, 29 July 2007 (PDT)

	== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==		== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==

Fredchat: /* A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. */

2007-07-29T18:29:19Z

A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird.

Dslmike: /* No organizational change for now */

2007-07-29T17:04:37Z

No organizational change for now

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 I blogged about this http://www.alexhudson.com/blog/2007/07/26/#thunderbird , primarily because I hack on http://www.bongo-project.org/ and would love to see Thunderbird really take advantage of some of the stuff our server can/could do. Primarily, I think Tbird has to become relevant to business users, even if just small business people, and it seems to me the obvious way to create a product which might generate revenue.
 == No organizational change for now ==
@@ Line 12: / Line 34: @@
 [[User:Eddyn|Eddyn]] 16:17, 27 July 2007 (PDT)
 ==Better Backups==

Cheesedoff: /* No organizational change for now */

2007-07-28T18:50:43Z

No organizational change for now

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:50, 28 July 2007
Line 16:		Line 16:


			==Better Backups==

			I think Thunderbird needs a better backup something that is easier then the current 3rd party programs out there to back it up.

	~~I think Thunderbird needs a better backup something that is easier then the current 3rd party programs out there to back it up.~~
			--CO

Cheesedoff: /* No organizational change for now */

2007-07-28T18:46:03Z

No organizational change for now

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:46, 28 July 2007
Line 12:		Line 12:

	[[User:Eddyn\|Eddyn]] 16:17, 27 July 2007 (PDT)		[[User:Eddyn\|Eddyn]] 16:17, 27 July 2007 (PDT)






			I think Thunderbird needs a better backup something that is easier then the current 3rd party programs out there to back it up.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:53, 4 August 2007
Line 7:		Line 7:
	* So I agree with lots what you posted, I wouldn't suggest to tie it to one server product, but use existing standards if possible. [[User:Eddyn\|Eddyn]] 13:01, 29 July 2007 (PDT)		* So I agree with lots what you posted, I wouldn't suggest to tie it to one server product, but use existing standards if possible. [[User:Eddyn\|Eddyn]] 13:01, 29 July 2007 (PDT)

	== Roadmap suggestion: Focus on backend~~, features will follow~~ ==		== Roadmap suggestion: Focus on the backend ==

	I would like to suggest an outlook (sorry about the pun) which is almost diametrically opposed to what I've been reading people say on talkbacks, forums, etc.		I would like to suggest an outlook (sorry about the pun) which is almost diametrically opposed to what I've been reading people say on talkbacks, forums, etc.
Line 19:		Line 19:
	# Support situations in which multiple processes (or threads) are working on the same mail folders / mail db / etc. at the same time		# Support situations in which multiple processes (or threads) are working on the same mail folders / mail db / etc. at the same time
	# Rework some older and cruftier parts of the code (like libmime)		# Rework some older and cruftier parts of the code (like libmime)
	# ~~allow~~ for real manipulation of messages in code (i.e. have message objects rather than just message header objects)		# Allow for real manipulation of messages in code (i.e. have message objects rather than just message header objects)
	# Expand the concept of a message to accommodate future work with instant messaging or forums-via-mail-client and other such modes of communication and interaction		# Expand the concept of a message to accommodate future work with instant messaging or forums-via-mail-client and other such modes of communication and interaction
	# Create a more powerful and more versatile filtering framework		# Create a more powerful and more versatile filtering framework
Line 25:		Line 25:

	I think the focus on 'enabling' work - backend improvement work - should allow more people to get involved with Thunderbird development in general, expand the possibilities of what can be done with extensions, and perhaps even lure people who are now only extension developers to get involved with core development. These last few goals are what I wish to stress the most - even if you disagree with some of the foci I listed in the previous paragraph.		I think the focus on 'enabling' work - backend improvement work - should allow more people to get involved with Thunderbird development in general, expand the possibilities of what can be done with extensions, and perhaps even lure people who are now only extension developers to get involved with core development. These last few goals are what I wish to stress the most - even if you disagree with some of the foci I listed in the previous paragraph.
			--[[User:Eyalroz\|Eyalroz]] 01:53, 4 August 2007 (PDT)

	== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==		== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:29, 29 July 2007
Line 7:		Line 7:
	== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==		== A new vision and roadmap for Thunderbird. ==

	1. adding sunbird lightning calendar to Thunderbird installer by default		# adding sunbird lightning calendar to Thunderbird installer by default
	2. Integrating serverless Instant Messenger retroshare.sf.net to Thunderbird		# Integrating serverless Instant Messenger retroshare.sf.net to Thunderbird
	3. Creating a adress book in Thunderbird, which has: emailadress, retroshare-key fields for each contact (copy out line).		# Creating a adress book in Thunderbird, which has: emailadress, retroshare-key fields for each contact (copy out line).
	4. creating the online-contact box in the left menue as a contact list for Thunderbrid email, users are offline or online and can be messaged or emailed. So there is no need for a buddylist, it is just the contacts adressbook of Thunderbird, which appears in the write Window and under teh folders in the main window left.		# creating the online-contact box in the left menue as a contact list for Thunderbrid email, users are offline or online and can be messaged or emailed. So there is no need for a buddylist, it is just the contacts adressbook of Thunderbird, which appears in the write Window and under teh folders in the main window left.
	5. Make a Thunderbird wizard, which picks up email-pop, retroshare cert_user.pem file OR creats an account for retroshare serverless IM.		# Make a Thunderbird wizard, which picks up email-pop, retroshare cert_user.pem file OR creats an account for retroshare serverless IM.

	These five steps to a new Thunderbird future combine both:		These five steps to a new Thunderbird future combine both:
	- online and offline communication		* online and offline communication
	- Instant Messaging and Email		* Instant Messaging and Email
	- serverless (new jabber-retroshare) and serverbased protocols (email)		* serverless (new jabber-retroshare) and serverbased protocols (email)
	- a new general interface to internet communication on the desktop.		* a new general interface to internet communication on the desktop.

	If no new roadmap is done for Mozilla, let´s do it for openoffice.		If no new roadmap is done for Mozilla, let´s do it for openoffice.
Line 24:		Line 24:
	BTW, there was an announcement, that 50 chinese developers invest in OOo,		BTW, there was an announcement, that 50 chinese developers invest in OOo,
	so why no getting support here as well.		so why no getting support here as well.



	== No organizational change for now ==		== No organizational change for now ==