attendees: nightrat, dmose, ctalbert, ssitter, andreas, thorsten-bln, lilmatt, jminta, anderson_belo_mangueira
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<ctalbert> hello everyone
<jminta> morning
<ctalbert> I suppose we'll go ahead and get started.
<ssitter> good evening
<ctalbert> :-)
<ctalbert> timezones...heh
<ssitter> you say it
<ctalbert> The first thing I wanted to start a discussion on was the "Proposed test case grouping" post I made a few days ago.
<ctalbert> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Proposed_Test_Case_Grouping
<ctalbert> These would be the groups of test cases in litmus for both Sunbird and Lightning. Of course, some things might be added or removed for each product.
<ctalbert> But, in general I think most things on the list are common between the two.
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<Andreas> We, Ulf and I (Sun QA) think this document is very useful. And together with Joey's '0.3 Release Status' document it should be easy to start with the test case writing.
<ssitter> nightrat: welcome
<nightrat> hi :-)
<ctalbert> hi
<ctalbert> nightrat: I just directed everyone to the test case grouping proposal for discussion: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Proposed_Test_Case_Grouping
<ctalbert> andreas: That's exactly where I want to go with this.
<ctalbert> My goal is to use this to begin writing testcases and then have a test day very soon after august 17th.
<ssitter> can this testcases be chained? like i do testcase 'event creation' and this is followed by testcase 'event display'.
<ctalbert> Yes, I don't see why not.
<nightrat> ctalbert: ok, thanks
<ctalbert> I'll figure out some way to do that in Litmus.
<ctalbert> :-)
<ssitter> does litmus offer this things or do i have to use my brain
<ctalbert> I think litmus will have some ability to help us there. And we can always suggest features for it. I don't think they completely support what you're thinking of at the moment, so you might stil have to use your brain
<ssitter> if i have to ;-)
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<ssitter> ctalbert: i think that list look good
<ctalbert> ssitter: thanks.
<ctalbert> I am thinking of having a community test writing day fairly soon. When do people think it would be best to have it?
<jminta> tuesday would be awesome, so we can talk about it at the weds 0.3 meeting bits
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<jminta> is tha too soon?
<ctalbert> With this (0.3) release, I don't think anything can possibly happen too soon. ;-)
<jminta> :)
<ctalbert> It would be a stretch for me, but I think that it could be do-able.
<ctalbert> What do others think?
<nightrat> ctalbert: should l10n be a part of the test case?
<ctalbert> Good question.
<ctalbert> I don't know.
<ctalbert> I looked at the way that Firefox and Thunderbird are structured, and they put L10N in a separate test group altogether.
<ssitter> i think you can just do the 'normal' testcases with e.g. a de-DE build
<nightrat> ctalbert: ok, that might be good
<ctalbert> ssitter: very true.
<ctalbert> I think that may be the way ffox and tbird work, because under their L10N test groups, they just have very basic tests in each language
<nightrat> ok, let's follow them
* ctalbert nods
<jminta> aren't l10n tests something that we do only immediately before a release?
<jminta> because localized builds aren't available and aren't usually up to date
<ctalbert> I would think so, since most dev occurs in English
<ssitter> 'open every dialog and verify that all strings are shown'
<ssitter> test done :-)
<ssitter> i think real l10n tests makes sense when we will do real l10n releases, like fx and tb
<ssitter> at the moment we do en builds and other builds are currently contributed
<nightrat> ssitter; you're right at the moment
<nightrat> i meant this when we have l10n releases from cvs
<ctalbert> For now we can certainly follow the ffox and tbird methodology, and tweak it in the future if need be.
<ctalbert> About this test writing day...what do people think about having it next Tuesday?
<ctalbert> I think it would be good to have a community event to get that started, and then people can continue to contribute testcases afterward
<nightrat> i think it would be ok
<ssitter> if jminta doesn't land a ton of patches the day before there might be an hour or two to spend
<ssitter> :-)
<ctalbert> I'll get someone to spike his coffee on monday :-)
<ctalbert> s/spike/drug
<ctalbert> We can plan for that. We'll do it like a test day.
<ctalbert> We'll have this forum open, and a wiki page up for people to land their test cases on.
<ctalbert> Unfortunately, we cannot give everyone Litmus test-case write access at the moment.
* ssitter was just going to ask about the 'how' to write
<ctalbert> It will be easiest to land them on the wiki, and have me put them into Litmus.
<ctalbert> I've talked to Zach a little about this, and that was what he suggested.
<ctalbert> I can make myself available from say 8:30 to 15:30 (my time) for questions.
<jminta> i can take the later time
<nightrat> in UTC?
<ctalbert> That would be uh...13:30 to 20:30
<ctalbert> utc
<ctalbert> I'm central time, in the US
* ssitter recommends the FoxClock extension for Sunbird
<ctalbert> Thanks. Sunbird is still building at the moment.
* jminta recommends his tz converter extension
<ctalbert> Would 13:30 be early enough for the Europeans? I could come in an hour earlier, if it would help
<Andreas> I think an hour earlier would be nicer for us.
<ssitter> i will not be able to join before 16:30 utc
<nightrat> it would be ok for me
<jminta> rm: remove write-protected regular file `sunbird-0.3a1+.en-US.linux-i686.tar.bz2'? yes
<jminta> rm: cannot remove `sunbird-0.3a1+.en-US.linux-i686.tar.bz2': Permission denied
<jminta> -bash-3.00$ pwd
<jminta> oops sorry
<ctalbert> heh
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<ctalbert> hi lilmatt
<lilmatt> Hey. Sorry I was late.
<ctalbert> Ok, then we'll have the testcase writing day from 12:30 UTC to at least 20:30 UTC, perhaps a bit later, depending on how long jminta is available
<dmose> i can be there starting around 19:30
<ctalbert> Great
<ctalbert> And for the latecomers, this will be this coming Tuesday, August 8
<ctalbert> I will post to the newsgroup with a summary of the details.
<ctalbert> jminta: do you own the blogs?
<ctalbert> s/blogs/calendar blog?
<jminta> ctalbert: i have access, i don't know that i won it
<jminta> own*
<ctalbert> I'd like to post a blog conerning the test case writing day.
<jminta> i can definitely get that up there
<ctalbert> Or submit it to you to post
<ctalbert> great.
<ctalbert> And one last item on the agenda. After the testcase writing is done, we will have a calendar test day. When should that be?
<ctalbert> The question is: should we do that before or after the 17th?
<jminta> i'd think it should be after
<ctalbert> That was my thought.
<lilmatt> yes
<ctalbert> I was thinking the 21st or 22nd
<ctalbert> I'd lean toward the 22nd, since it's a Tuesday. (Mondays always seem more difficult to organize events on).
<ctalbert> What do folks think?
<jminta> i think if we can set a tuesday pattern, that'd be helpful
<lilmatt> 22 sounds fine. I'm just glad you didn't pick the 18th, as that's my wife's bday
<Andreas> Tuesday sounds good.
<ctalbert> We'll shoot for that. I'll let the mozilla QA folks know, and perhaps we can pull some of them into it as well.
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<ctalbert> That's all I had. Is there anything else that people would like to discuss?
<jminta> i've got one
<jminta> i've been trying to more liberal with the qawanted keyword in bugzilla
<jminta> these are mostly UNCO bugs that, if we can confirm them, are critical
<jminta> so just an encouragement from me for people to poke at those
<ctalbert> sounds good. I'll try to do some of that.
<ctalbert> If anyone wants to get a head start writing test cases, please do. Just create a wiki page off of http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:QA_Home
<ctalbert> And put them up there.
<dmose> jminta: maybe it's worth calling out the use of that keyword in a blog entry, if you haven't already
<jminta> yeah, i'll tweak yesterday's post
<ctalbert> Anything else?
<ctalbert> If anyone would like to help write sample test cases for some of the components, let me know: cmtalbert at myfastmail dot com
<dmose> great; thanks for driving this clint!
<ssitter> ctalbert: maybe you can put together a template testcase
<ssitter> ctalbert: that can be used for new testcases
<ctalbert> ssitter: I will do that.
<ctalbert> I'll include it in my NG post
<ssitter> you know best what information litmus needs
<ctalbert> that's true.
<ctalbert> Ok. Time's about up. Thanks everyone.
<ctalbert> Meeting adjourned.