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* Location: [irc://irc.mozilla.org/seamonkey #seamonkey IRC channel]
* Location: [irc://irc.mozilla.org/seamonkey #seamonkey IRC channel]
* Further Read: [[SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/Basics|Basics]]
* Further Read: [[SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/Basics|Basics]]
* Participants (in order of appearance):
* Participants (in order of appearance): Ratty frg IanN rsx11m ewong


== Agenda ==
== Agenda ==
* Who's taking minutes? -> '''TBD'''
* Who's taking minutes? -> '''frg'''
* Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank:
* Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank:
** '''TBD'''
** '''The fishes look forward to the next time they meet a new friend'''
 
=== Special agenda from the last meeting (for reference) ===
==== Release Planning next release ====
* Mozilla plans to remove XUL and classic extensions by the end of 2017. While it is still unclear if the time table is realistic the future outlook is bleak.
* It is unclear if the current SeaMonkey developer team can fix the upcoming build breaks fast enough to do regular releases.
* SeaMonkey 2.50a1 (FF 53) is building but this may change at any time. l20n is planned for FF 53 and might disrupt l10n building again.
* The consensus seems to be to do a ESR 52 cycle for the next SeaMonkey release. This would mean SeaMonkey 2.49 will become an ESR release still providing Windows XP and Vista compatibility.
* Thunderbird has been ESR only since the beginning of the train model. The biggest obstacle/restriction is that no string changes are allowed.
* Doing a 2.49 ESR will give the developer team a  breather to fix the upcoming breaks in the mozilla source tree.
* Forking the Mozilla source tree is not an option. The dev team is too small and would not be able to even fix all upcoming security bugs in a forked Gecko engine.
 
==== Release Planning mid/long term ====
* Mid/Long term release planning was not discussed because of time constraints. It will be put on the agenda of the next status meeting.
* It was suggested that we set up own builders to become more independent of Mozilla. '''adriank''' already has a working build system based on Jenkins. '''Ratty''' and '''ewong''' would like to set up one based on buildbot. No decision needed right now but this needs to be worked out.
* A new build system should provide try builds and should us also enable doing automated tests again.
==== Discussion ====
''Ratty screwed up and didn't update the 2017-01-10 meeting with the notes. So here they are again. sumimasen, sumimasen, honto ni sumimasen.''
 
Benefits for 2.49ESR as opposed to whatever is comm-release:
* ESR will get security fixes for 12 months.
* After that we can cherry-pick and backport stuff. FRG thinks that will give us 18+ months on ESR-49.
* We want to keep XP/Vista support, plug-in support other than Flash, full themes and XUL overlay extensions for a bit longer.
* It'll give us some breathing space. We can even innovate and do some feature work. We could selectively back port feature work.
* But no string changes would be allowed on ESR.
** [Ratty] The way Thunderbird does releases on ESR and get new string changes is to do releases on comm-beta and then copy the new strings to their ESR-L10n.
* [Callek] I agree it gives some more breathing room around a release train, but as Thunderbird has noticed, doing it that way still means we need beta's, because we need to work with and track changes that are necessary for future, otherwise we're in a boat of "hey there was 100k changesets between this working esr and this broken one, what.
* [Ratty] For me personally the breaking point is removal of support for XUL extensions and "Full Themes". At this point I'm going to switch my focus to ESR [FRG] The same.
* '''Build System'''
** Basically we need a build system that is simple but allows lets us have localised extensions.
** [IanN] In an ideal world we would like to merge mozilla-ESR into comm-ESR so we have a unified repository.
** This would among other things, simplify the build process,
** '''jcranmer''' has been doing some testing in the Cypress twig repository but that work has stalled since jcranmer lost interest.
** [FRG] Whatever is decided should be decided with TB together. I don't think we will be able to do it alone.
** Will the build system we use depend on whether we join forces with TB? TB will continue to use buildbot, so the question whether we adapt to their buildbot configuration or they adapt to us.
** It would it be a good idea that we come up with a basic plan of what infra we need and finalize the structure and then let Callek have a looksee?
* '''Ratty'''  is prepared to fork out some cash to get some independent infrastructure working.
* Q: what TB are going to do about infrastructure. [Ratty] They have hired a systems architect to do the planning for their new infrastructure.
* One issue that ewong is concerned about. since a lot of our current infra interact with moco-internal stuff (api tooltool and the upload servers to name a few).
* We need to be able to upload those nightlies to stage (archive.m.o) and the symbol server. And eventually we'll need to be able to upload data to "Balrog" (the update server) which we'd currently need to upload that data to our own update server.
** So we either ask them to whitelist those external ips or we duplicate the kind of setup they have.
* FRG asks if we could put a donation page into the SeaMonkey 2.48 first start page. Instead of the regular hello new release page we could redirect to another page on seamonkey-project.org.


=== Action Items ===
=== Action Items ===
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* —
* —
'''OPEN'''
'''OPEN'''
* Mozilla plans to check in l20n early in the Firefox 53 release cycle. Unclear what this means for comm-central and the build configs. Needs to be monitored.
* Mozilla plans to check in l20n. Unclear what this means for comm-central and the current l10n build configs. Needs to be monitored.
** in light of this and [[#Release_Train|other changes in 52+]], releasing 2.49.x off 52 ESR becomes an increasingly attractive option
** {{bug|1107635}} - Rewrite build system l10n repack rules from Makefile rules into a Python script might also affect a timely l10n repack
** In light of this and [[#Release_Train|other changes in 52+]], Our concensus is that we will release 2.49.x off 52 ESR.
* Google announced V4 of the safebrowsing api. No actions currently needed. Firefox adds support for it in {{bug|1167038}}.
* Google announced V4 of the safebrowsing api. No actions currently needed. Firefox adds support for it in {{bug|1167038}}.
* Google API key for Safe Browsing. Ewong/Callek about getting it loaded onto the build machines.
* Google API key for Safe Browsing. Ewong/Callek about getting it loaded onto the build machines.
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* '''IanN''' has spoken to mcsmurf about members list. Members mailing-list and council appointments are ready to be reviewed.
* '''IanN''' has spoken to mcsmurf about members list. Members mailing-list and council appointments are ready to be reviewed.
** TODO: Add Adrian Kalla to RelEng team. Overall no change as of today
** TODO: Add Adrian Kalla to RelEng team. Overall no change as of today
* '''IanN''' [http://www.seamonkey-project.org/dev/project-areas SeaMonkey project areas] is very outdated. '''IanN''' plans to prepare the final draft of the project areas this week.
* '''IanN''' [http://www.seamonkey-project.org/dev/project-areas SeaMonkey project areas] is very outdated. '''IanN''' plans to prepare the final draft of the project areas soon.
* '''frg''' suggests a tabbrowser.xml overhaul because it's becoming harder to backport fixes from Firefox.
* '''frg''' suggests a tabbrowser.xml overhaul because it's becoming harder to backport fixes from Firefox.
** '''IanN''' suggests doing small patches which are easier to review.
** '''IanN''' suggests doing small patches which are easier to review.
* '''frg''' thinks we should try to get our own builders.
* '''frg''' thinks we should try to get our own builders.
** where, which build environment, how to cover associated costs?
** where, which build environment, how to cover associated costs?
* [https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2017-01-24 Special agenda from the last meeting (for reference)]
** Discussions and planning about the future of SeaMonkey are still going on.
** frg will ask Adrian about his build config.
* —
* —
'''CLOSED'''
'''CLOSED'''
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** [comm-central]:
** [comm-central]:
*** All Platforms: Green (though OSX64 is backlogged, but it should be green).
*** All Platforms: Green (though OSX64 is backlogged, but it should be green).
*** See {{bug|1334779}} for current breakages.
** [comm-aurora]:
** [comm-aurora]:
*** Linux*: Green
*** Linux*: Green
*** OSX64: Orange/Green
*** OSX64: Orange/Green
*** See {{bug|1313304}} for current breakages.
*** See {{bug|1319091}} for current breakages.
** [comm-beta]
** [comm-beta]
*** Pretty much Green/Orange.
*** Pretty much Green/Orange.
*** See {{bug|1313304}} for current breakages.
** [comm-release]:
** [comm-release]:
*** Green/Orange.
*** Green/Orange.
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* Notes:
* Notes:
** '''Callek:''' Regarding the windows systems, sadly no progress yet. I'm hopeful we can get done sooner than later, I'm realistic expecting it won't be any time soon.
** '''Callek:''' Regarding the windows systems, sadly no progress yet. I'm hopeful we can get done sooner than later, I'm realistic expecting it won't be any time soon.
** '''Ewong''' will set up a cron job to do semi regular builds on the loaner machine. He is still unable to set a timeframe for the next release. The moco build system is constantly changing. The MAC builders can be updated to OSX 10.9. He needs to consult with '''Callek''' first about this. He has trouble building the Windows version on the loaner.
** '''Ewong''' did set up a cron job to do semi regular builds on the loaner machine. The MAC builders can be updated to OSX 10.9. He needs to consult with '''Callek''' first about this.
** Windows nightly trunk builds are unavailable due to various bugs such as {{Bug|1092468}} and {{Bug|1108970}}. Migrating our [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114876 Windows builders to Win2008] and our compiler toolchain to VS2015 would likely solve this and other bustages. '''Ewong made substantial progress here and building works on the loaner'''.
** Windows nightly trunk builds are unavailable due to various bugs such as {{Bug|1092468}} and {{Bug|1108970}}. Migrating our [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1114876 Windows builders to Win2008] and our compiler toolchain to VS2015 would likely solve this and other bustages. '''Ewong made substantial progress here and building works on the loaner'''.
** There are also some upcoming changes to l10n build system in Q1 2015 ({{bug|1107635}}).
** Langpacks aren't updated when auto-updating SeaMonkey because they aren't uploaded to AMO. The solution requires changes in SeaMonkey RelEng (and possibly AMO).
** Langpacks aren't updated when auto-updating SeaMonkey because they aren't uploaded to AMO. The solution requires changes in SeaMonkey RelEng (and possibly AMO).
** wrt {{bug|1155011}}, we already have a Soccoro token.  The patches on {{bug|1155013}} require approval and then pushed and the work-around patches backed out.
** wrt {{bug|1155011}}, we already have a Soccoro token.  The patches on {{bug|1155013}} require approval and then pushed and the work-around patches backed out.
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=== Release Train ===
=== Release Train ===
* SeaMonkey 2.46 was released December 22, 2016, tracked in {{Bug|1294433}}
* SeaMonkey 2.46 was released December 22, 2016, tracked in {{Bug|1294433}}
** Issues with this release:
* SeaMonkey 2.48 will be the next release tracked in {{Bug|1336310}}
** l10n problems from 2.46 are still not solved which might mean that extensions again can not be shipped bundled with this release.
*** l10n problem is tracked in ({{bug|1231349}}).
*** l10n problem is tracked in ({{bug|1231349}}).
*** Chatzilla and DOMi repack problems are also tracked in {{Bug|1315552}}.
*** Chatzilla and DOMi repack problems are also tracked in {{Bug|1315552}}.
** Release notes in {{Bug|1302639}}.
*** IanN has locale merge working for Chatzilla and is working on the DOMi repack issues.
** Setting the default search engine no longer works ({{Bug|1265881}}).
*** See also {{Bug|652063}} (Enable localized ChatZilla builds).
* '''2.48 beta is in preparation''' ({{bug|1328886}}, {{bug|1336310}}).
** Release notes in {{Bug|1336315}}.
** gtk3 will be disabled for beta and likely release builds.
** gtk3 will be disabled for beta and likely release builds.
*** There are at least three problems with gtk3 builds which may not be resolved in time ({{Bug|1269145}}, {{Bug|1267982}}, {{Bug|1331208}}).
*** There are at least three problems with gtk3 builds which may not be resolved in time ({{Bug|1269145}}, {{Bug|1267982}}, {{Bug|1331208}}).
*** a regression for gtk2 builds since 2.40 has been identified but is limited to certain desktop themes and doesn't seem to affect the most current OS version ({{bug|1312215}}).
*** A regression for gtk2 builds since 2.40 has been identified but is limited to certain desktop themes and doesn't seem to affect the most current OS version ({{bug|1312215}}).
*** Building releases with gtk2 is only a short time solution and will no longer be possible with Gecko 53 (SM 2.50, thus would still allow 2.49 gtk2 builds). Probably a meta bug for gtk3 compatibility should be created.
*** Building releases with gtk2 is only a short time solution and will no longer be possible with Gecko 53 (SM 2.50, thus would still allow 2.49 gtk2 builds). Probably a meta bug for gtk3 compatibility should be created.
** Because of the following bugs updates need to be tested if they are still working:
*** {{Bug|1274722}} Add %SYSTEM_CAPABILITIES% to the SeaMonkey app.update.url preference
*** {{Bug|1271761}} Add CPU features/detection to update URL
** 2.48 is 'lightly' blocked on our ability to migrate from AUS2 to Balrog as the above mentioned bugs might be difficult with AUS2. {{bug|1254401}}


* ewong: Suggests the following:
* ewong: Suggests the following:
** Officially release a linux64 build (incl. tests)
** Officially release a linux64 build (incl. tests)
*** Start with 2.50 (or if we don't make it, 2.51) trunk.
*** Start with 2.51 trunk.
*** Not entirely sure what is needed to make it official. Need to correspond with Callek.
*** Not entirely sure what is needed to make it official. Need to correspond with Callek.
** Build an unofficial (contributed build) Win64 build.  [akin to the status that Linux64 has now.]
** Build an unofficial (contributed build) Win64 build.  [akin to the status that Linux64 has now.]
*** Start with 2.51 (we need to iron out the build issues, though right now, having just finished a W64 build, we might be able to have it available with 2.50; but I don't know how the tests are going to work(though this will need to wait).  
*** Start with 2.51 (we need to iron out the build issues, though right now, having just finished a W64 build, we might be able to have it available with 2.51; but I don't know how the tests are going to work(though this will need to wait).  
*** Currently tracked by {{bug|482143}}.
*** Currently tracked by {{bug|482143}}.


* Backup plan in case we need it is to do some releases off comm-esr52. These would be 2.49.x releases. No current plans until Mozilla suddenly removes full theme support or anything else which would severely break SeaMonkey.
* Current plan is to do releases off comm-esr52. No current backup plan other than continue building off comm-release.
** Firefox plans removal of non-WebExtension add-ons and full-theme support with Gecko 57 [https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2016/11/23/add-ons-in-2017/].
** Firefox plans removal of non-WebExtension add-ons and full-theme support with Gecko 57 [https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2016/11/23/add-ons-in-2017/].
** Patches which do not concern Thunderbird could be checked into comm-esr52 (once established) after getting approval too.
** Patches which do not concern Thunderbird could be checked into comm-esr52 (once established) after getting approval too.
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* Useful Firefox Release Schedule link: [https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=bW96aWxsYS5jb21fZGJxODRhbnI5aTh0Y25taGFiYXRzdHY1Y29AZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ Releases Scheduling]
* Useful Firefox Release Schedule link: [https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=bW96aWxsYS5jb21fZGJxODRhbnI5aTh0Y25taGFiYXRzdHY1Y29AZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ Releases Scheduling]
** Merges completed January 23rd (mozilla-beta → mozilla-release was merged January 16th), trunk now on SM '''2.51'''.
** Merges completed January 23rd (mozilla-beta → mozilla-release was merged January 16th), trunk now on SM '''2.51'''.
** Because of the following bugs updates need to be tested if they are still working:
*** {{Bug|1274722}} Add %SYSTEM_CAPABILITIES% to the SeaMonkey app.update.url preference
*** {{Bug|1271761}} Add CPU features/detection to update URL
**** 2.48 is 'lightly' blocked on our ability to migrate from AUS2 to Balrog as the above mentioned bugs might be difficult with AUS2. {{bug|1254401}}


=== Extensions and Plugins Compatibility Tracking ===
=== Extensions and Plugins Compatibility Tracking ===
* SeaMonkey Council is looking into setting up a separate add-ons site for SeaMonkey extensions. This would fix long standing issues we have with AMO.
* SeaMonkey Council is looking into setting up a separate add-ons site for SeaMonkey extensions. This would fix long standing issues we have with AMO.
** '''Ratty''' and '''IanN''' will meet with the AMO people to discuss this.
** [Ratty] Suggests that if we do this, we can also host the ''Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey''.
** [Ratty] Suggests that if we do this, we can also host the ''Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey''.
* '''Firefox plans removal of non-WebExtension add-ons and full-theme support with Gecko 57''' [https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2016/11/23/add-ons-in-2017/].
* '''Firefox plans removal of non-WebExtension add-ons and full-theme support with Gecko 57''' [https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2016/11/23/add-ons-in-2017/].
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*** in Gecko 52 ''only'', this will be controlled by a pref plugin.load_flash_only which is planned to be removed with Gecko 53.
*** in Gecko 52 ''only'', this will be controlled by a pref plugin.load_flash_only which is planned to be removed with Gecko 53.
**** {{bug|1308273}} flips that pref to allow all plugins in 2.49 at least. '''(landed)'''
**** {{bug|1308273}} flips that pref to allow all plugins in 2.49 at least. '''(landed)'''
** SeaMonkey might release a 2.49 ESR build based on FF 52 ESR code. Nothing decided yet.
**** '''frg''' will file a bug which flips the pref back starting with 2.51 because any workarounds or code in dom/plugins specific to other plugins is now being removed from the tree.
** any workarounds or code in dom/plugins specific to other plugins may be subsequently removed.
* DOMi langpacks aren't working. Chatzilla langpacks show as disabled on a new profile.
** IanN has locale merge working for Chatzilla. He will be working on the DOMi repack issues tonight.
** See also {{Bug|652063}} (Enable localized ChatZilla builds).
* See [[SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/Basics|Basics]] page. Please only list current changes here.
* See [[SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/Basics|Basics]] page. Please only list current changes here.
* '''Addons are now compatible by default. The code in the addon manager that complains about incompatible version numbers has been removed. This should reduce the friction of installing older addons.'''
* '''Addons are now compatible by default. The code in the addon manager that complains about incompatible version numbers has been removed. This should reduce the friction of installing older addons.'''
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** {{Bug|1003434}} Add support for about:sync-progress.
** {{Bug|1003434}} Add support for about:sync-progress.
** As an alternative to porting sync setting up a sync 1.1 server might work.
** As an alternative to porting sync setting up a sync 1.1 server might work.
** Sync 1.1 has been removed from the mozilla source tree. If we want sysnc 1.1 to work we need to fork it.
*** Pro: We control our own sync server and are not left at the mercies of Mozilla the next time they change their sync system.
*** Pro: We control our own sync server and are not left at the mercies of Mozilla the next time they change their sync system.
*** Con: Can't sync with Firefox (unless someone writes a Sync 1.1 client for Firefox).
*** Con: Can't sync with Firefox (unless someone writes a Sync 1.1 client for Firefox).
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<!-- ** &mdash; -->
<!-- ** &mdash; -->
* Current breakages:
* Current breakages:
** Currently '''FRG''' fixes breakages faster than we can report them in our fortnightly meetings ;)
** &mdash;
** &mdash;
<!-- ** &mdash; -->
<!-- ** &mdash; -->
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** {{Bug|825588}} Asynchronous JavaScript API for downloads and {{Bug|851471}} Decommission nsIDownloadManager. Tracked in:
** {{Bug|825588}} Asynchronous JavaScript API for downloads and {{Bug|851471}} Decommission nsIDownloadManager. Tracked in:
*** {{Bug|888915}} Move SeaMonkey to the new JavaScript API for downloads when nsIDownloadManager is decommissioned. '''frg is currently looking into the patch from Neil'''.
*** {{Bug|888915}} Move SeaMonkey to the new JavaScript API for downloads when nsIDownloadManager is decommissioned. '''frg is currently looking into the patch from Neil'''.
* [frg] suggested to match SeaMonkeys minor version number with then one from Firefox in a future release. This need to be looked into first because some external releng or other stuff might rely on the -3 version offset.
* [frg] suggested to match SeaMonkeys minor version number with then one from Firefox in a future release. '''Ratty''' and ''' frg''' didn't find any references in the source code where the current -3 offset is used in either releng or program code. Discussion is onder way to match the minor version number when releasing the ESR version (which would then become SeaMonkey 2.52).
* [adriank] would like to drop DOMi or at least not bundling it with release builds in {{Bug|1273222}}. Open for discussion.
* [adriank] would like to drop DOMi or at least not bundling it with release builds in {{Bug|1273222}}. Open for discussion.
* [ewong] stated that SeaMonkey needs to move to balrog which is the the new updates server/format to do a future 2.47 release.
* [rsx11m] did open bug {{bug|1305902}} for certificate pinning. Discussion if it should be enabled for SeaMonkey is still underway. '''Callek''' commented in the bug after the status meeting.
* [rsx11m] did open bug {{bug|1305902}} for certificate pinning. Discussion if it should be enabled for SeaMonkey is still underway. '''Callek''' commented in the bug after the status meeting.


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==== Callek ====
==== Callek ====
==== ewong ====
==== ewong ====
* '''Working on'''
'''Working on'''
* {{bug|1254401}} - [Tracking Bug] Migrate SeaMonkey off aus2 to balrog.
* {{bug|1254401}} - [Tracking Bug] Migrate SeaMonkey off aus2 to balrog.


Frg
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