Agenda/Notes

The MDN community meeting takes place in the #mdn channel on irc.mozilla.org at:

• 5 AM PDT (13:00 UTC). See the meeting time in your time zone.

Introductions

Since lots of people lurk in #mdn, if you're actively attending the meeting please speak up and introduce yourself.

• Attending: chrismills, jswisher, teoli, sheppy, Meteor, Jérémie, ArtB, chaithanya

What are you working on?

Please share recent accomplishments, and goals you have for the next few weeks.

• (Jeremie) Learning Area: at the last project meeting we decide to move our discussion topics to the community meeting.
• (chrismills) Documenting the Web Speech API.
• (Florian and Jean-Yves) CSS macros: we moved forward, removing macros that are now redundant with info in the Quicklinks. Over the last few months about 80 CSS-related macros have been updated or deleted. We still have 2 set of macros to clean up there: "Macros to link to a css type" (instead of 1 macro per type, we will have 1 macro for all types, adding the <>) and the cleaning of the CSS sample on the sample servers that we can't manage any more.
• (ArtB) Worked on Touch Events, Pointer Events. Now working on Drag and Drop API.
• (Sheppy) Finished a Signaling example for WebRTC, the whole article will be available today at: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebRTC_API/Signaling_and_video_calling

Blockers

Is there anything keeping you from making progress?

• (sheppy) Anyone have a cure for peripheral neuropathy? :)

Help wanted

Please share documentation bugs that need work, or other things where you need short-term help.

• (Jeremie) Learning Area: We have a list of articles that need to be reviewed (both editorial review and pedagogic review)
  • See the LA Trello board: https://trello.com/b/LDggrYSV

Actions

Previous

• Janet will look into using Jeremie's IRCBot for future meetings

New/Continuing

Miscellaneous

Anything else we need to discuss synchronously?

• Who will moderate the next meeting?

Meeting minutes

• (13:01) jswisher: It’s time for the MDN Community Meeting
• (13:01) jswisher: Thanks, Jeremie!
• (13:01) chrismills: anaran: In the case of methods and properties the menu is filled from the child pages of an interface
• (13:01) anaran: chrismills: so https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1202248 shows that prperty navigator.mozApps.mgmt is specific to fxos, how should that be handled on the doc side?
• (13:02) firebot: Bug 1202248 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Implement navigator.mozApps.mgmt for Desktop Apps (available in b2g)
• (13:02) sheppy: anaran: There’s a script that is run to build that from webidl files.
• (13:02) jswisher: Who is here attending the meeting?
• (13:02) sheppy: o/
• (13:03) anaran: chrismills: are there other pages besides GroupData generated by that script?
• (13:03) Jeremie: o/
• (13:03) ifilin: present. for now, here to listen and learn.
• (13:04) jswisher: Hi sheppy, Jeremie, ifilin !
• (13:04) jswisher: The agenda is here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/MDN/Meetings/Community/2015-11-18
• (13:04) jswisher: :-)
• (13:06) teoli: :-)
• (13:06) chrismills: o/
• (13:07) jswisher: OK, let’s get started

What are you working on?

• (13:07) jswisher: Jeremie: Want to talk about the Learning Area?
• (13:08) Jeremie: Yes :)
• (13:08) Jeremie: Starting this week, they won't be a LA weekly meeting anymore
• (13:08) Jeremie: We now discuss all LA topics in that meeting :)
• (13:09) sheppy: In this meeting?
• (13:09) sheppy: (to be sure my early morning brain is on track)
• (13:09) Jeremie: The Learning Area section is now mature enough and we do not have enough topics to discuss now that worth a dedicated meeting
• (13:09) Jeremie: sheppy: In the cummunity meeting
• (13:09) sheppy: OK
• (13:10) Jeremie: So far so good the last big peace of work for this year is the revamping of the CSS getting started tutorial
• (13:10) Jeremie: It going well and is expected to be finished for Orlando
• (13:12) Jeremie: ANd that's all I have for now. Any question?
• (13:13) teoli: I have
• (13:13) jswisher: Jeremie: Is that the old CSS tutorial that pre-dated the Learning Area?
• (13:13) Jeremie: jswisher: Yes
• (13:13) Jeremie: We make it young again
• (13:13) teoli: What kind of discussion do you see for LA inside this meeting? Work planning or discussion about how to do things.
• (13:13) teoli: ?
• (13:13) Jeremie: teoli: Both
• (13:14) Jeremie: CSS Getting starting revamp WIP is here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Learn/CSS/Basics
• (13:14) Jeremie: And project overview is here: https://trello.com/c/NAuDmn9u
• (13:15) jswisher: Thanks, Jeremie
• (13:16) sheppy: whew
• (13:16) chaithanya: Hi. I have just begun contributing to Mozilla and I would like to fix some documentation bugs. Could someone please tell me where can I find them?
• (13:17) teoli: Jeremie: how will the navigation between the page happen: linearily or do we want a side menu? (the current one is not very helpful)
• (13:18) teoli: chaithanya: sure! What technical area are you familiar with.
• (13:18) Jeremie: teoli: currently it's linear but as soon as we would have been get rid of zone, a dedicated menu is welcome
• (13:18) teoli: ArtB: you can send an e-mail to the list, Florian and I will reply and it will be useful for everybody.
• (13:19) teoli: (The answer will likely be too long for this meeting)
• (13:19) ArtB: :-), ok will do!
• (13:19) chaithanya: I'm familiar with HTML and CSS styling
• (13:21) sheppy: Heh… I went to go looking for a page to point chaithanya to help out with and discovered that our “Getting started on MDN” article, down where it says “I found something wrong but don’t know how to fix it”, was giving people a link to file bugs in the “Mozilla Developer Network” product instead of the “Developer Documentation” one.
• (13:22) jswisher: chrismills: Would you like to taik about Web Speech API?
• (13:22) chrismills: jswisher: hello ;-)
• (13:23) chrismills: I don’t need to say much, just that I’m full speed ahead on it now, and it will be done before the end of the year
• (13:23) chrismills: It is available on Firefox 2.5, both the synthesis and recognition parts
• (13:23) sheppy: chrismills: Another option, by the way, would be to do editorial or technical reviews, which can really help out a lot. See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/MDN/Contribute/Howto/Do_an_editorial_review and https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/MDN/Contribute/Howto/Do_a_technical_review
• (13:23) chrismills: on desktop only the synthesis part is available right now, behidn a pref
• (13:24) chrismills: well, recognition is too … but they’ve not yet implemented the permissions stuff. So you can turn on the pref, but you can’t use it ;-)
• (13:24) sheppy: I’m really excited about getting Web Speech.
• (13:25) sheppy: jswisher: yeah, oops
• (13:25) chrismills: it works really nicely, from playing with some demos
• (13:25) sheppy: chaithanya: Those links were for you :)
• (13:25) chrismills: the synthesis part creates speech that sounds like 90s or early 2000s video game speech
• (13:25) sheppy: There are a lot of really interesting possibilities for Web Speech, beyond just the obvious accessibility stuff.
• (13:25) chaithanya: Oh okay! Thanks! :)
• (13:26) chrismills: So of course, my first demo will be a recreation of the Zero Wing loading screen
• (13:26) sheppy: chrismills: Do you know if it uses the platform’s speech synth, ordoes it have its own?
• (13:26) sheppy: “ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US"
• (13:26) chrismills: yup, that’s the one ;-)
• (13:26) jswisher: chaithanya: Also, you can find all CSS doc bugs here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=Developer%20Documentation&bug_status=__open__&component=CSS&list_id=12689205
• (13:26) sheppy: :)
• (13:26) jswisher: And all HTML doc bugs here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=Developer%20Documentation&bug_status=__open__&component=HTML&list_id=12689206
• (13:26) chrismills: it uses an in-browser speech synth, afaics
• (13:27) jswisher: chaithanya: but as teoli implied, they’re not necessarily good first bugs
• (13:27) sheppy: jswisher / teoli: The fact that it’s taking this long for us to adequately answer chaithanya’s simple question means we need a better way to find good first bugs.
• (13:28) sheppy: chrismills: Interesting. I would not have expected that.
• (13:28) jswisher: Thanks, chrismills
• (13:29) chaithanya: cool :) Will I be able to find Documentation Bugs for other languages like c++ too?
• (13:29) chrismills: sheppy I am basically guessing, but I’d expect it to sound a bit more sophisticated if it used the Mac’s own synthesis stuff
• (13:29) chrismills: You can play with it here: http://eeejay.github.io/webspeechdemos/
• (13:29) sheppy: chrismills: Ah! It’s using native Mac OS X voices on Mac.
• (13:30) jswisher: chaithanya: The main dashboard for doc bugs is: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=productdashboard.html&product=Developer%20Documentation&bug_status=open&tab=components
• (13:30) chrismills: sheppy is it? Ok, cool
• (13:30) sheppy: I can pick “Alex,” which is the really advanced default OS X voice.
• (13:30) jswisher: Then you can follow links to each component; C++ would be under “Mozilla Platform"
• (13:30) jswisher: But requires some familiarity with the Mozilla codebase
• (13:30) chrismills: sheppy: glad I was wrong about that ;-)
• (13:30) sheppy: Although it sounds like the browser is doing something unsightly that is crippling its ability to speak naturally. Good god, that’s awful.
• (13:31) Meteor: I catch the MDN Community meeting this time.
• (13:31) sheppy: Meteor: ]o/
• (13:32) sheppy: er… \o/ :)
• (13:32) chaithanya: cool thanks :)
• (13:33) jswisher: Hi Meteor !
• (13:33) jswisher: Anything else about Web Speech API?
• (13:33) chrismills: jswisher: nope, that’ll do for now
• (13:33) jswisher: fscholz and teoli have been cleaning up macros like crazy :-)
• (13:34) sheppy: jswisher: I suspect they’ve been replaced with robots from the future. :)
• (13:34) Meteor: jswisher: Sorry to come late.
• (13:36) jswisher: Meteor: No problem
• (13:39) jswisher: fscholz, teoli: If any of the macros you removed were mentioned on the Contribute pages about macros, those mentions should be removed too
• (13:39) jswisher: But I doubt they were documented :-)
• (13:40) sheppy: :)
• (13:41) sheppy: Sounds like they may have merged (or be merging) macros that are used commonly though to simplify things.
• (13:41) sheppy: That’ll take some ‘splaining :)
• (13:41) jswisher: fscholz, teoli: Anything else we need to know about macro cleanup?
• (13:43) jswisher: OK, let’s move on
• (13:44) jswisher: ArtB: Do you want to add anything about Touch Events, Mouse Events, and Drag and Drop API?
• (13:47) ArtB: jswisher: I consider the Touch Events and Pointer Events work complete
• (13:47) ArtB: (at least mostly, not including some potential Quick Link updates)
• (13:47) sheppy: yay
• (13:47) sheppy: Quicklinks are an ongoing exploration of all the awesome we can do with them.
• (13:47) ArtB: I have completed the first pass at all of the DnD ref docs (DragEvent, DataTransfer, DataTransferItem and DataTransferItemList)
• (13:48) ArtB: next up is DnD Overview and Guide work
• (13:48) sheppy: Good deal - DnD has needed help for a long while.
• (13:48) ArtB: I think the existing Guides are already in great shape!
• (13:49) jswisher: Cool, thanks!
• (13:49) sheppy: ArtB: Be on the lookout, we have some old stuff for Firefox specific DnD technology that probably needs to be deprecated/obsoleted/archived (depends on whether it works still or not) and crosslinked over to the new stuff.
• (13:49) chrismills: ArtB One of the other editors can be on hand to do a review of the stuff you have finished? Shall I add the Touch Events and Pointer Events docs to the review queue?
• (13:49) ArtB: one potential issue here is that it appears the "evolution" of the APIs is to use the "items" interface for things like add() and not DatTransfer.setData()
• (13:49) sheppy: mmm
• (13:50) ArtB: chrismills, yes please
• (13:50) chrismills: ArtB: Cool, will do
• (13:50) ArtB: yeah there are many moz/gecko specific props and methods on DataTransfer
• (13:50) ArtB: I'd like to understand their Use Cases
• (13:50) ArtB: so if anyone has pointers to the UCs, please LMK
• (13:50) Ms2ger: Is anyone implementing any of the new dnd features?
• (13:51) ArtB: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/DataTransfer#Gecko_properties
• (13:51) ArtB: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/DataTransfer#Gecko_methods
• (13:51) ArtB: Ms2ger - yes Chrome has DTI and DTIL
• (13:52) ArtB: I *think* (i.e. haven't done `the work`) that several of the moz/gecko specific interfaces are just convenience functions that aren't necessary if DTI and DTIL are used
• (13:53) ArtB: (makes me think the DnD APIs have evolved in various stages over time)
• (13:53) ArtB: Ms2ger - and Msft documents DTI and DTIL on there developer sit (but I haven't tested them)
• (13:54) ArtB: (that is all ;-))
• (13:54) jswisher: ArtB: :-)
• (13:55) chrismills: Thanks ArtB - that is excellent work
• (13:55) sheppy: ArtB: Yes, the APIs have evolved in stages. And Mozilla implemented one on its own originally, way before there was a spec.
• (13:55) jswisher: sheppy: You have finished a demo and article for WebRTC?
• (13:55) sheppy: But did not prefix it.
• (13:56) sheppy: jswisher: Yes! My sample is done! The article is in progress. The composing is going fast but the physical writing is slow because my left arm is seizing up for a few minutes every 45 seconds to five minutes after I start typing.
• (13:56) sheppy: teoli: :(
• (13:56) sheppy: But the article will be here, and has links to the code and the live sample site: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebRTC_API/Signaling_and_video_calling
• (13:57) sheppy: I have a lot of scraps of stuff written from while I was coding but need to get it all into human-readable form (as opposed to sheppy-shorthand).
• (13:57) teoli: jswisher: the macro weren't in the contribute pages.
• (13:57) teoli: *s

Blockers

• (13:59) jswisher: Does anyone have something blocking you from making progress?
• (13:59) sheppy: Ignore my semi-jokey entry here :)
• (13:59) sheppy: Morbid humor today.
• (14:00) jswisher: sheppy: I wish I could help :-S
• (14:00) sheppy: jswisher: Me too :)

Help Wanted

• (14:01) jswisher: (we are just about out of time, but I want to finish the agenda if possible)
• (14:01) sheppy: If you guys could see all the awesome stuff I have written in my head that’s taking *forever* to get typed out… :D
• (14:01) jswisher: Jeremie: There are reviews needed for the Learning Area?
• (14:02) Jeremie: Yes, we have some articles that deeds to be reviewed :)
• (14:02) Jeremie: Those in the needs review column here: https://trello.com/b/LDggrYSV
• (14:03) Jeremie: Pedagogic review is intent to check if the content is clear enough for beginners (right formulation, right level of details, etc)
• (14:05) Jeremie: Let me know if you have question or needs help with that kind of review
• (14:05) Jeremie: The most "urgent" are those related to HTML topics
• (14:06) sheppy: Yeah, the word is just not one I’d ever seen before. Interesting derivative form of “pedagogue” (also not a word you see used much). Huh.
• (14:06) jswisher: sheppy: Educators use “pedagogy” all the time :-)
• (14:06) Jeremie: sheppy: I guess it's a frenchism

Action Items

• (14:08) jswisher: I still have not done anything about setting up MeetingBot, but fortunately, Jeremie is here to do it :-)
• (14:08) Jeremie: indeed :)
• (14:08) sheppy: jswisher: Sure, but “pedagogic” is an interesting form of the word that takes it to a whole new level :)
• (14:08) sheppy: Jeremie: Hehehe — those happen :)
• (14:09) sheppy: The bot is really something.
• (14:09) Ms2ger: Why not pedagogial?

Miscellaneous

• (14:10) sheppy: I’m not actually sure what’s intended by “pedagogic” here. I’d probably use something else but not sure what.
• (14:10) sheppy: (mostly for not knowing what’s intended, precisely)
• (14:10) teoli: chaithanya: Still looking for a bug to document: what about: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1035410 ?
• (14:10) Jeremie: sheppy: Feel free to suggest a better word ;)
• (14:10) firebot: Bug 1035410 — UNCONFIRMED, jypenator@gmail.com — ::-moz-range-track undocumented feature
• (14:10) jswisher: The next meeting will be on December 2 at 18:00 UTC
• (14:10) sheppy: jswisher: Was just abotu to ask that
• (14:10) jswisher: I will moderate the meetings until the end of the year
• (14:11) jswisher: We can talk about trading off moderator duties in 2016
• (14:11) Jeremie: sheppy: Maybe educational could be better fit
• (14:11) sheppy: Jeremie: Yeah… although I suspect it’s a word that probably takes several words to fully replace it. :)
• (14:12) jswisher: Before we finish — ifilin, Meteor: Do you have any questions?
• (14:12) sheppy: jswisher: sounds like a plan. I wonder if it would be worth establishing a set rotation schedule, maybe?
• (14:12) Meteor: No.
• (14:12) chrismills: …or anyone else, for that matter?
• (14:12) sheppy: Something based off time zones or something even.
• (14:13) chaithanya: teoli: Looks like a good bug, but where am i to make changes? inside mdn?
• (14:13) sheppy: chaithanya: Yep!
• (14:13) sheppy: Just edit MDN’s content directly. :)
• (14:13) teoli: chaithanya: yes, you need to create a new page
• (14:13) teoli: chaithanya: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/::-moz-range-track
• (14:14) Meteor: For IRC robot, is there more detail about it?
• (14:14) sheppy: jswisher: If we got a list of people who can do moderating in each time zone, then rotate through them on a regular schedule for each...
• (14:14) sheppy: I have Meteor’s question too — I’d like to know more about the meeting bot.
• (14:14) teoli: You can use the same look and feel than this page: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/::backdrop
• (14:14) sheppy: I think I’ve seen stuff before but don’t remember where.
• (14:14) sheppy: https://github.com/JeremiePat/irc-meeting-bot
• (14:14) teoli: chaithanya: ^^^
• (14:15) sheppy: There it is :)
• (14:15) Jeremie: Everything about the IRC bot in use can be found here: https://github.com/JeremiePat/irc-meeting-bot
• (14:15) Meteor: Jeremie: Thanks.
• (14:15) jswisher: OK, let’s close the meeting. Sorry for running over time.