You changed the topic to "Welcome to the duplication/find duplicate workshop Etherpad to read/take notes is at http://etherpad.mozilla.com:9000/aziJgEK3MP Usul moderating".
[20:02] Usul: welcome bnjmnalbertus Jan
[20:02] • Usul waves at wsmwk henx_ loompek jhopkins and the others !
[20:02] jhopkins: hello!
[20:02] Usul: so we are going to start the dupme workshop
[20:02] Usul: I'll first discuss some of the techniques I used
[20:02] Jan: hey Usul
[20:03] Usul: I use
[20:03] Usul: and I'll try to write proper English
[20:03] bnjmnalbertus: hi Usul
[20:03] Usul: and once we've discussed these, we might try to use them
[20:04] Usul: If you use another technique than the one I'm going to explain - I'll be interested in knowng how you do it and how it works
[20:05] Usul: I'll documents bits at http://etherpad.mozilla.com:9000/aziJgEK3MP which contains parts of what happened a few hours earlier when we had the first dupme session
[20:05] Usul: If you have questions please raise them !! ask them and we'll try to answer them the best we can !
[20:06] Usul: So the first thing technique I use, is a very easy one, I use meta bugs. These bug link to a number of bugs that have been opened in the past.
[20:07] rolandtanglao1 joined the chat room.
[20:07] Usul: This let's me very easily compare bug summaries, and If I find a match with the summaries I can compare a bit more in depth (by reading the comments)
[20:08] Usul: if I think both match I'll mark the new bug as a duplicate
[20:08] Usul: so this technique is nice because you do'nt need to know muh about how to use bugzilla , you just need the list of meta bugs
[20:09] Usul: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=meta&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=---&resolution=DUPLICATE&classification=Client%20Software&classification=Components&query_format=advanced&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&product=MailNews%20Core&product=Thunderbird
[20:09] Usul: that's the list and you need to figure out to which of these bugs the bug you are working on would be attached to try to find a bug previously linked to that bug that matches
[20:10] Usul: The big issue is that not all bugs are linked to meta bugs - so you might not find what you are looking for using this technique.
[20:10] Usul: Are the explanations above clear ?
[20:11] jhopkins: Usul: when would someone want to create a meta bug?
[20:11] Standard8: generally meta bugs are only useful if someone is actively maintaining and tracking them
[20:11] bnjmnalbertus: would linking a bug to a meta bug be useful/possible?
[20:11] Usul: I do not know any rules with meta bugs creations. It's when someone feels responsible about a function in thunderbird or a subset of a funtion, he creates meta bugs
[20:12] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: yes it would
[20:12] Usul: for instance
[20:12] rolandtanglao1 is now known as rolandtanglao.
[20:13] Usul: bug 402793 is maintained by wada. When you make a new bug dependant on that bug there are good chance that wada who maintains that bug will come and look at the bug.
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[20:13] firebot: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=402793 nor, --, ---, m-wada, NEW, [Meta] Gmail IMAP is still under construction
[20:13] Usul: That's not true for all meta bugs
[20:14] Usul: so jhopkins when someone feels like he likes a part of functions in TB and wants to make sure that things happens a meta bug is created. The last create bug is one about the quick filter. Thomas created it to clean up the search component and make it easier for him to follow what was going on
[20:14] Usul: and maintain the bugs he cared about
[20:14] Usul: I create meta bugs for releases to track things as theye are good to track things.
[20:15] Usul: does that kind of answer your question jhopkins ?
[20:15] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: did I answer your question ?
[20:15] jhopkins: Usul: yes, that's great thanks
[20:16] bnjmnalbertus: Usul: yes, i think so
[20:16] Usul: The second technique I use is keyword permutation using quick search
[20:16] Standard8: jhopkins: in your situation a good meta bug could be upgrade MoMo's buildbot to 0.8, what are all the steps to achieve that (which would be in dependent bugs)
[20:16] Usul: so on any bugzilla page you have a search field and a search button this is called quick search
[20:16] jhopkins: is it the meta-bug owner's responsibility to look for dupes then?
[20:17] Usul: jhopkins: not completely but yes that helps
[20:17] jhopkins: ok
[20:17] Usul: so quick search tips and tricks can be found at http://www.squarefree.com/bugzilla/quicksearch-help.html
[20:18] Usul: Now that I've defined what quick search is let's explain what search permutation is
[20:19] Usul: if you look and read https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612942 you'll see that you can extract some "keyword" from the bug
[20:19] firebot: Bug 612942 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Message flag "awaiting reply"
[20:19] Usul: so from that bug say I will extract flag, wait, reply
[20:20] Usul: Now what you guys needs to realize is that most people don't search before filling bugs in bugzilla
[20:21] Usul: so the first thing I'm doing is searching with the keywords so I'll do a search on flag and reply
[20:21] Usul: if I don't find anything I'll try wait reply
[20:21] Usul: and then I'll start doing permutation
[20:21] Usul: someone else might have opened a bug on the same subject but with different keyword
[20:22] Usul: so I would replace flag with state for instance (because that how flags are used in TB)
[20:22] jhopkins: Usul: like "flag,switch,boolean" ?
[20:22] Usul: ie let's do an example
[20:23] Usul: My first search would be https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=flag+reply which is flag and reply
[20:23] Usul: my first permutaion would be https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=state+reply where I've replaced flag by state and see if I get better results
[20:23] Usul: jhopkins: does that explains permutation better ?
[20:24] jhopkins: Usul: can't you separate alternative words with commas and do it in one shot?
[20:24] Usul: unfortunately no, bugzilla is not that smart
[20:24] Usul: it's a very manual process
[20:25] jhopkins: Usul: oh. i'm looking at the quicksearch-help page you linked to earlier.
[20:25] jhopkins: "img,image matches image and IMG tag."
[20:26] Usul: Ho never used that need to try it with very different words like state,flag
[20:26] Usul: but good pointing - thanks
[20:27] loompek: ssup
[20:27] Usul: so the positives points about this permutation technique is that you don't need to know much on how bugzilla work and is organized and you don't need any knowledge of the bugs that are already in the bug database
[20:28] Usul: problem is you can do plenty of permutation and still not be sure that you didn't find a duplicate
[20:29] Usul: Third technique is to use Advanced search of course
[20:29] Usul: it works like permutations but you can filter results a lot more efficiently
[20:30] • Standard8 will add his techniques to the etherpad later as he's going to be on the phone for the next hour
[20:30] Usul: Standard8: can you do it now ?
[20:30] Usul: I'll do the add to etherpad so we can discuss it
[20:30] Standard8: not really
[20:30] Usul: ok
[20:31] Usul: so the advanced search is longer to get into - because you need to know how bugzilla.mozilla.org is organized
[20:31] Usul: you need to know product names
[20:31] Usul: and components name
[20:32] Usul: but you get smaller lists of results so you can be a bit more efficient as quick serach sometime returns more than 500 bugs , and that makes a lot to read.
[20:33] Usul: So the next technique I use doesn't go thru the bugzilla website
[20:33] bnjmnalbertus: Usul: would you mind giving an example of an advanced search?
[20:33] Usul: I just use all the bugmail in my bugmail folder and use thunderbird to filter it and find bugs.
[20:33] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: not at all
[20:34] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: so first you need to go to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/query.cgi
[20:34] Usul: and make sure that you are in the advanced search tab
[20:34] Tobbi joined the chat room.
[20:34] Usul: hi tobbi
[20:35] Tobbi: Hey usul. Just checking this channel.
[20:35] Tobbi: Too much to work on currently, I'm sorry.
[20:35] Usul: please do - we are having a workshop on dupme in bugzilla
[20:35] Tobbi: There's a SUMO testday today and I still need to check in some calendar articles into sumomo.
[20:35] Tobbi: I can try to be available later on, but can't promise anything.
[20:36] Usul: so now let's say I want to find all meta bugs for thunderbird only that were create this year
[20:36] Usul: first in classification I'll choose client software
[20:36] Usul: in product I'll select Thunderbird
[20:37] Usul: in status I'll choose Unconfirmed +NEW+ASSIGNED
[20:37] Usul: in resolution I'll choose ---
[20:37] Usul: in keywords I'll enter "meta"
[20:37] Usul: without the "
[20:38] Usul: in bug change I'll enter 2010-01-01 in only bugs etc ...
[20:38] Usul: I'll press the search button
[20:39] Usul: that give sme too much bug (ie 39) and not the ones create this year to get the ones from this year I'll press the back button to get back to the search page
[20:40] Usul: will secelt [bug creation] below the date I just entered
[20:40] Usul: this will give me https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=meta&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=---&resolution=DUPLICATE&classification=Client%20Software&chfieldto=Now&chfield=[Bug%20creation]&query_format=advanced&chfieldfrom=2010-01-01&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&product=Thunderbird
[20:40] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: was that a good example , was I answering your question ?
[20:41] bnjmnalbertus: Usul: that was very helpful, thank you
[20:41] Usul: so let's go back to the next technique I use
[20:42] Usul: I use bugmail to find dupliactes and very quickly filter the bugs that I have in my inbox
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[20:42] Usul: that's very fast , very easy , but it also means you follow plenty of bugs and that you have a big inbox with plenty of bug mail
[20:42] Usul: so basically that technique is the permutaion one, but done on bug mail
[20:43] Usul: and to get bugmail I just follow many components
[20:44] Usul: is that technique clear of should I explain it more ?
[20:44] Usul: rolandtanglao: ?
[20:45] jhopkins: Usul: maybe an example of something you can do in TB but not in bugzilla?
[20:45] jhopkins: (or do more easily)
[20:46] Usul: jhopkins: what Thunderbird offers over bugzilla is speed. And by default bugzilla will return only opened bugs. While I'm searching for a closed bug and I'lm get that onthe spot with thunderbird
[20:47] jhopkins: ok. sounds like something that would gain value over time as your inbox collects these bugs
[20:47] Usul: exactly that the con of this technique, is you need to have bugs in your mailbox
[20:47] Usul: so it's not a very good one for beginners
[20:47] Usul: or people that start
[20:48] Usul: The last technique I use is a bit like the one I just described with the same pros and cons
[20:51] Usul: sometimes we get bug that I know just go fixed
[20:51] Usul: I'm following commit feeds for comm-central
[20:51] Usul: so I just filter on that
[20:52] Usul: but it requires to follow plenty fo things so I wouldn't recomend that to new comers.
[20:52] Usul: so shall we try to get our hands dirty and try to find a duplicate ?
[20:53] jhopkins: sounds good
[20:53] bnjmnalbertus: yes please!
[20:54] Usul: so let's select a bug that might be a candidate for being a duplicate from the bugs that have been flagged as possible duplicates https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?resolution=---&classification=Client%20Software&classification=Components&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&query_format=advanced&status_whiteboard=dupme&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&product=MailNews%20Core&product=Thunderbird
[20:55] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: select a un that list
[20:55] Usul: s/un/in/
[20:56] Usul: and give us the number so we can all work on the same bug
[20:56] rolandtanglao left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.)
[20:56] jhopkins: usul: btw, i think i found a dupe for bug 612942. see bug 466844
[20:56] firebot: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612942 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Message flag "awaiting reply"
[20:56] firebot: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=466844 enh, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Feature Request: A follow-up-function for sent mail that reminds the user of pending replies
[20:56] Usul: damns thanks
[20:56] Usul: I looked for it this morning but didn't manage to find it
[20:57] Usul: did you mark it as a duplicate ?
[20:57] jhopkins: no, i'll let you have the honour
[20:57] rolandtanglao joined the chat room.
[20:57] Usul: so how about you tell us how you did that ?
[20:58] Usul: and once you've told us we'll figure a bug to work on
[20:58] jhopkins: ok
[20:59] jcranmer|away is now known as jcranmer.
[20:59] jhopkins: I did a quick search for: remind reply,respond email
[20:59] jhopkins: that limited the results pretty well and i just scanned through them
[21:00] Usul: so permutations - I didn't think about searching for reminf this morning when I tried to find it.
[21:00] wsmwk is now known as wsmwk_away.
[21:00] Usul: so bnjmnalbertus did you make a pick in the bug list I gave above ?
[21:02] bnjmnalbertus: sorry, i got distracted...
[21:02] bnjmnalbertus: hows the first one https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525307
[21:02] firebot: Bug 525307 nor, --, ---, bienvenu, UNCO, preview pane loses focus and selected message is again marked unread
[21:03] Usul: good
[21:03] Usul: so shall we start with permutation ?
[21:04] Usul: what do you think we should have for keywords describing that bug ?
[21:05] Usul: and everyone can participate
[21:06] bnjmnalbertus: sure... preview mark unread, maybe
[21:06] Usul: I would add focus
[21:06] jhopkins: personally, i'd start with /preview focus/ and narrow the search further if needed
[21:06] Usul: so how about we do those searches
[21:07] Usul: and paste the search url here
[21:07] jhopkins: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=preview+focus
[21:08] Usul: who 92 bugs found
[21:08] Usul: that's a lot
[21:08] Usul: so when I get that I'll refine the search
[21:08] jhopkins: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=preview+mark+unread
[21:09] Usul: I'll click on the edit search at the bottom of the page and will tell bugzilla to only search in Thunderbird
[21:09] Usul: 18 bugs is better as it's easier to go thru
[21:10] Usul: but that econd list doesn't seem to contain a duplicate
[21:10] bnjmnalbertus: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?field0-0-5=content&type0-0-4=substring&field1-0-4=status_whiteboard&type1-0-0=substring&value0-0-5="preview"&type0-0-5=matches&field1-0-3=short_desc&field0-0-0=product&field1-0-2=alias&type0-0-1=substring&field0-0-1=component&value1-0-3=focus&type1-0-1=substring&value1-0-1=focus&field0-0-4=status_whiteboard&type1-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=preview&classificat
[21:10] bnjmnalbertus: ion=Client Software&value1-0-5="focus"&type1-0-3=substring&value1-0-2=focus&type0-0-3=substring&query_format=advanced&value0-0-3=preview&field0-0-3=short_desc&type1-0-5=matches&type1-0-4=substring&value1-0-0=focus&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&value0-0-4=preview&field0-0-2=alias&value0-0-1=preview&field1-0-5=content&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=pre
[21:10] bnjmnalbertus: view&field1-0-0=product&type0-0-2=substring&product=Thunderbird&value1-0-4=focus&field1-0-1=component
[21:10] bnjmnalbertus: oh, that's too long... sorry
[21:12] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: yeah use tinyrul.com to paste it
[21:12] Usul: that would work
[21:12] Usul: one more thing I'm ot sure that the bug as a dupliacte
[21:12] bnjmnalbertus: http://tinyurl.com/23gbf3y
[21:13] Usul: 27 bug is a good count
[21:13] Usul: so none of the things we've tried were sucessfull
[21:13] Usul: I think we've tried enough permutations
[21:14] Usul: so I'll remove the initial bug from the list of might have duplicates
[21:14] wsmwk_away: bug Bug 616224 is another (new) dupme
[21:14] firebot: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=616224 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Possible memory leak when deleting IMAP e-mails.
[21:15] Usul: yes that also looks a like a good duplicable bug
[21:15] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: jhopkins want to try that one ?
[21:15] jhopkins: sure
[21:15] Usul: wehere the keywords would be imap delete leak
[21:15] bnjmnalbertus: yes
[21:15] jhopkins: Usul: btw, can you talk a bit about the 'dupme' whiteboard status?
[21:15] wsmwk_away: bnjmnalbertus: & jhopkins race!
[21:16] wsmwk_away: hint, memory is a good synonym for leak
[21:17] jhopkins: 506509 ?
[21:17] wsmwk_away: bug 506509
[21:17] firebot: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=506509 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Memory leak when deleting with large amounts of mail
[21:17] bnjmnalbertus: im too slow!
[21:18] jhopkins: i wonder if there could be a 3rd dupe...?
[21:19] wsmwk_away: jhopkins: there could be, but we've pretty well cleaned up the bugs. that one is good to dup to
[21:19] jhopkins: if you look at bug 398684, it reports a memory leak with non-imap so maybe imap is a red herring?
[21:19] firebot: Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=398684 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Virtual memory size of Thunderbird increases 40MB after each "Shift+Delete of all 40,000 mails and C
[21:20] Usul: jhopkins: sure we use the dupme dupme and dumpe? flags to mark bugs we think are already in the database. Why do we do that, because we didn't find it (like the one this morning ) and someone else might find it (like you did). So basiaccly we flag bugs and sometime I cc people so those people know that the bug possinbly already exist and will contribute their time by searching bugs. This frees my time as I can tackle more bug. and once in a while we have duplicate hunts - but they haven't been very sucessful to this day.
[21:20] rolandtanglao: /me is just lurking, not really here and is impressed by the bugzilla-fu required to de-dupe!
[21:20] Usul: Having the workshop is a good way for creating proper dics training people and have a better use of the dupme whiteboard
[21:20] Usul: flag
[21:20] wsmwk_away: in that particular bug 398684 , the issue is that the memory doesn't decrease
[21:20] bnjmnalbertus: i found this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=296453
[21:20] firebot: Bug 296453 maj, --, Thunderbird 3.0b3, bienvenu, NEW, Racing CPU, slow performance moving/deleting/dragging large number of messages
[21:21] wsmwk_away: supposedly
[21:21] jhopkins: wsmwk_away: aka. a leak, right?
[21:21] jhopkins: anywa, we don't have to solve it here
[21:21] wsmwk_away: jhopkins: more "traditional" leak, yes
[21:22] wsmwk_away: 296453 is different because it's about drag and drop - the backend activity that occurs behind that action is different
[21:22] bnjmnalbertus: okay
[21:26] jhopkins: Usul: are there things bug reporters can do to help dedupe efforts? like embedding keywords?
[21:26] Usul: what they can do is search beofre opening new bugs
[21:26] Usul: that's the moste effective things
[21:27] Usul: bt I realized that a workshop on using bugzilla might be a good idea tonight too
[21:27] Usul: Ok I'll go on and edit the etherpad now
[21:27] Usul: and we'll start the last workshop in a few hours
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[21:28] You changed the topic to "Thunderbird Quality Assurance :: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing || Help #thunderbird || Bugs #tb-bugs || Devs #maildev || Get Involved http://tinyurl.com/tbgetinv".
[21:28] jhopkins: I wonder, has anyone played with XML or CSV output for offline filtering?
[21:28] rolandtanglao joined the chat room.
[21:28] Usul: bnjmnalbertus: jhopkins Tobbi thanks for attending