Calendar:QA Chat Log:2006-08-03

attendees: nightrat, dmose, ctalbert, ssitter, andreas, thorsten-bln, lilmatt, jminta, anderson_belo_mangueira

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<ctalbert>	hello everyone
<jminta>	morning
<ctalbert>	I suppose we'll go ahead and get started.
<ssitter>	good evening
<ctalbert>	:-)
<ctalbert>	timezones...heh
<ssitter>	you say it
<ctalbert>	The first thing I wanted to start a discussion on was the 
"Proposed test case grouping" post I made a few days ago.
<ctalbert>	http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Proposed_Test_Case_Grouping
<ctalbert>	These would be the groups of test cases in litmus for both 
Sunbird and Lightning. Of course, some things might be added or removed 
for each product.
<ctalbert>	But, in general I think most things on the list are 
common between the two.
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<Andreas>	We, Ulf and I (Sun QA) think this document is very useful.
 And together with Joey's '0.3 Release Status' document it should be 
easy to start with the test case writing.
<ssitter>	nightrat: welcome
<nightrat>	hi :-)
<ctalbert>	hi
<ctalbert>	nightrat: I just directed everyone to the test case 
grouping proposal for discussion: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Proposed_Test_Case_Grouping
<ctalbert>	andreas: That's exactly where I want to go with this.
<ctalbert>	My goal is to use this to begin writing testcases and 
then have a test day very soon after august 17th.
<ssitter>	can this testcases be chained? like i do testcase 'event
 creation' and this is followed by testcase 'event display'.
<ctalbert>	Yes, I don't see why not.
<nightrat>	ctalbert: ok, thanks
<ctalbert>	I'll figure out some way to do that in Litmus.
<ctalbert>	:-)
<ssitter>	does litmus offer this things or do i have to use my brain
<ctalbert>	I think litmus will have some ability to help us there. 
And we can always suggest features for it. I don't think they completely 
support what you're thinking of at the moment, so you might stil have to 
use your brain
<ssitter>	if i have to ;-)
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<ssitter>	ctalbert: i think that list look good
<ctalbert>	ssitter: thanks.
<ctalbert>	I am thinking of having a community test writing day fairly 
soon. When do people think it would be best to have it?
<jminta>	tuesday would be awesome, so we can talk about it at 
the weds 0.3 meeting bits
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<jminta>	is tha too soon?
<ctalbert>	With this (0.3) release, I don't think anything can 
possibly happen too soon. ;-)
<jminta>	:)
<ctalbert>	It would be a stretch for me, but I think that it could be do-able.
<ctalbert>	What do others think?
<nightrat>	ctalbert: should l10n be a part of the test case?
<ctalbert>	Good question.
<ctalbert>	I don't know.
<ctalbert>	I looked at the way that Firefox and Thunderbird are 
structured, and they put L10N in a separate test group altogether.
<ssitter>	i think you can just do the 'normal' testcases with 
e.g. a de-DE build
<nightrat>	ctalbert: ok, that might be good
<ctalbert>	ssitter: very true.
<ctalbert>	I think that may be the way ffox and tbird work, 
because under their L10N test groups, they just have very basic 
tests in each language
<nightrat>	ok, let's follow them
* ctalbert	nods
<jminta>	aren't l10n tests something that we do only immediately 
before a release?
<jminta>	because localized builds aren't available and aren't 
usually up to date
<ctalbert>	I would think so, since most dev occurs in English
<ssitter>	'open every dialog and verify that all strings are shown'
<ssitter>	test done :-)
<ssitter>	i think real l10n tests makes sense when we will do real 
l10n releases, like fx and tb
<ssitter>	at the moment we do en builds and other builds are 
currently contributed
<nightrat>	ssitter; you're right at the moment
<nightrat>	i meant this when we have l10n releases from cvs
<ctalbert>	For now we can certainly follow the ffox and tbird 
methodology, and tweak it in the future if need be.
<ctalbert>	About this test writing day...what do people think 
about having it next Tuesday?
<ctalbert>	I think it would be good to have a community event 
to get that started, and then people can continue to contribute testcases
 afterward
<nightrat>	i think it would be ok
<ssitter>	if jminta doesn't land a ton of patches the day before there 
might be an hour or two to spend
<ssitter>	:-)
<ctalbert>	I'll get someone to spike his coffee on monday :-)
<ctalbert>	s/spike/drug
<ctalbert>	We can plan for that. We'll do it like a test day.
<ctalbert>	We'll have this forum open, and a wiki page up for people 
to land their test cases on.
<ctalbert>	Unfortunately, we cannot give everyone Litmus test-case 
write access at the moment.
* ssitter	was just going to ask about the 'how' to write
<ctalbert>	It will be easiest to land them on the wiki, and have me 
put them into Litmus.
<ctalbert>	I've talked to Zach a little about this, and that was what
 he suggested.
<ctalbert>	I can make myself available from say 8:30 to 15:30 (my time) 
for questions.
<jminta>	i can take the later time
<nightrat>	in UTC?
<ctalbert>	That would be uh...13:30 to 20:30
<ctalbert>	utc
<ctalbert>	I'm central time, in the US
* ssitter	recommends the FoxClock extension for Sunbird
<ctalbert>	Thanks. Sunbird is still building at the moment.
* jminta	recommends his tz converter extension
<ctalbert>	Would 13:30 be early enough for the Europeans? I could come 
in an hour earlier, if it would help
<Andreas>	I think an hour earlier would be nicer for us.
<ssitter>	i will not be able to join before 16:30 utc
<nightrat>	it would be ok for me
<jminta>	rm: remove write-protected regular file `sunbird-0.3a1+.en-US.linux-i686.tar.bz2'? yes
<jminta>	rm: cannot remove `sunbird-0.3a1+.en-US.linux-i686.tar.bz2': Permission denied
<jminta>	-bash-3.00$ pwd
<jminta>	oops sorry
<ctalbert>	heh
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<ctalbert>	hi lilmatt
<lilmatt>	Hey. Sorry I was late.
<ctalbert>	Ok, then we'll have the testcase writing day from 12:30 
UTC to at least 20:30 UTC, perhaps a bit later, depending on how long 
jminta is available
<dmose>	i can be there starting around 19:30
<ctalbert>	Great
<ctalbert>	And for the latecomers, this will be this coming Tuesday, 
August 8
<ctalbert>	I will post to the newsgroup with a summary of the details.
<ctalbert>	jminta: do you own the blogs?
<ctalbert>	s/blogs/calendar blog?
<jminta>	ctalbert: i have access, i don't know that i won it
<jminta>	own*
<ctalbert>	I'd like to post a blog conerning the test case writing day.
<jminta>	i can definitely get that up there
<ctalbert>	Or submit it to you to post
<ctalbert>	great.
<ctalbert>	And one last item on the agenda. After the testcase writing 
is done, we will have a calendar test day. When should that be?
<ctalbert>	The question is: should we do that before or after the 
17th?
<jminta>	i'd think it should be after
<ctalbert>	That was my thought.
<lilmatt>	yes
<ctalbert>	I was thinking the 21st or 22nd
<ctalbert>	I'd lean toward the 22nd, since it's a Tuesday. (Mondays 
always seem more difficult to organize events on).
<ctalbert>	What do folks think?
<jminta>	i think if we can set a tuesday pattern, that'd be helpful
<lilmatt>	22 sounds fine. I'm just glad you didn't pick the 18th, 
as that's my wife's bday
<Andreas>	Tuesday sounds good.
<ctalbert>	We'll shoot for that. I'll let the mozilla QA folks know, 
and perhaps we can pull some of them into it as well.
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<ctalbert>	That's all I had. Is there anything else that people would 
like to discuss?
<jminta>	i've got one
<jminta>	i've been trying to more liberal with the qawanted keyword in
 bugzilla
<jminta>	these are mostly UNCO bugs that, if we can confirm them, 
are critical
<jminta>	so just an encouragement from me for people to poke at 
those
<ctalbert>	sounds good. I'll try to do some of that.
<ctalbert>	If anyone wants to get a head start writing test cases, 
please do. Just create a wiki page off of 
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:QA_Home
<ctalbert>	And put them up there.
<dmose>	jminta: maybe it's worth calling out the use of that keyword in a 
blog entry, if you haven't already
<jminta>	yeah, i'll tweak yesterday's post
<ctalbert>	Anything else?
<ctalbert>	If anyone would like to help write sample test cases for 
some of the components, let me know: cmtalbert at myfastmail dot com
<dmose>	great; thanks for driving this clint!
<ssitter>	ctalbert: maybe you can put together a template testcase
<ssitter>	ctalbert: that can be used for new testcases
<ctalbert>	ssitter: I will do that.
<ctalbert>	I'll include it in my NG post
<ssitter>	you know best what information litmus needs
<ctalbert>	that's true.
<ctalbert>	Ok. Time's about up. Thanks everyone.
<ctalbert>	Meeting adjourned.