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SeaMonkey Meeting Details


  • Who's taking minutes? -> frg
  • Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank:
    • ewong and frg dynamic build and tree fixing duo

Action Items

(who needs to do what that hasn't been recorded in a bug) We should assign people to the open items.



  • New council members frg, rsx11m and ewong were already appointed a few weeks ago. IanN will look into a website update now that the project areas were updated.
  • TODO: Add Adrian Kalla to RelEng team. Overall no change as of today.
  • Planning the future of SeaMonkey with a new infrastructure is in progress.
    • ewong is evaluating the cost and specs for an aws and azure based build system.
    • We need to prepare to move the SeaMonkey website off MoCo infrastructure.
    • Cross compiling macOS builds is now possible for Firefox under Linux.
      • This will be evaluated for the new infrastructure so that we don't need additional macOS builders.
    • We need a jumphost, a buildmaster, a Windows and a Linux slave.
      • A Puppet system for setup and configuration is under evaluation.
      • Costs and if we should do an initial 1 yor 3 year setup are still evaluated.
      • Funding is available.
    • We need to start with a static setup and expand as necessary.
      • Our current infra (excluding the new mac mini and the Win loaner) will be gone by late Q3/early Q4 as Mozilla vacates the SCL3 datacenter.
      • WG9s will do comm-central and comm-beta community builds weekly to see if SeaMonkey still builds on Linux.
      • We have 12 linux64 systems, 7 win32 systems (1 dead), 4 OSX64 systems (3 dead 1 dying).
      • Only vital components (for Firefox) will be moved to the new MoCo data center.
      • The SeaMonkey builders will be decommissioned/scrapped and not moved to MoCos new data center.
      • ewong has created a jumphost on aws and is working on the master.
      • Thunderbird is on taskcluster starting with ESR60. At the current stage it is not possible to say if we can benefit from this in the future. The taskcluster setup is complicated.
        • tomprince thinks it would be relatively easy to move SeaMonkey to taskcluster. We need to evaluate this.
        • A few years ago, it was stated that SeaMonkey wasn't permitted to use TaskCluster. Whether that has changed, remains to be seen. ewong has pinged someone.
        • In any case dedicated machines or instances are needed anyway so the infrastructure buildup needs to continue.
      • ewong is in the process of setting up the necessary parts.
        • We have an additional mac mini (from but it is not able to connect properly with the master due to routing issues. (bug 1441001 which has been marked WF due to the fact that 1) it's only going to be a temporary setup, 2) to get this working will require a lot of fiddling on Moco's part and ewong isn't willing to add more complications and burden to Moco's NetOps team.
        • Decision was to forgo connecting the new mini to SCL3 and instead, set up a Moco-financially-backed (maintained by us) infra.
        • Initial consideration was to have our infra on AWS; but Azure seems a bit cheaper.
  • Thunderbird has moved its web presence to Thunderbird Net. All builds after ESR52 will be done on taskcluster.
    • TB will later migrate off MoCo infrastructure.
  • ewong is trying to include rust dynamically. Mozilla no longer provides rust tooltool packages and a bug needs to be opened for every new version now.

CLOSED No need to drag this into the next meetings. I think we know the situation now.

  • For a possible new infrastructure OSX builders would only be needed for tests. This can be added at a later stage.
  • frg suggests aligning the source with Fx after 2.57ESR. This means taking most parts of browser and put the old ui and mail integration on top. Reason is that porting bugs gets harder very day and web extensions plus e10s supports needs to be added in the near future.
    • IanN thinks it might be a too huge task. The last time this was done more devs were available.
  • Mozilla is currently removing older apis left, right and in the middle without much concern for the comm-central applications.
    • Everything not used by Firefox is on the chopping block and is being removed now. This includes rdf, XUL templates and apis used primary for classic extensions.
    • It is unlikely that a ESR60 based build will be ready in time after the current ESR52 is deprecated.
    • Backporting bugs to 2.49 or doing an interim 2.53 build with security fixes is being evaluated.
  • Upcoming l10n changes to the build system which need to be monitored.
    • Mozilla is now checking in the first changes from Project Fluent. The browser preferences are migrated in bug 1424682 Migrate the chrome of Preferences to the new Localization AP.
    • l10n-beta and l10n-release are virtually dead, specific l10n-central csets are taken for releases

Status of the SeaMonkey Buildbot Master and Tree

          • Doubling effort in getting the infra on Azure up.
  • Various Bugs open for building.
    • We have only one OSX64 builder left which seems to fail frequently now.
    • Linux64 Nightly: bug 1275215 is still open but Linux is building most of the time.
    • Linux64 build: bug 1275218 is still open but Linux is building most of the time.
    • Windows building is done on the loaner.
  • [8th April 2018]
    • Tests have been re-enabled and running but have issues.
      • All tests are Red.
    • All trees:
    • [comm-central]:
      • All Platforms: Busted.
        • No GCC 6.4 tooltool packages [TB is using TaskCluster infra so they get the gcc toolchain for free. We still depend on the 6.4 tooltool package. Have yet to ping someone to get it done. None of our systems can build the 6.4 tooltool package.]
        • LLVM_CONFIG not set. bug 1450257
        • Installer and local builds busted because of branding issues. frg hopes to have a fix ready this week.
      • Do not expect to use the 2.58 release yet other than for brief testing. It is fundamentally broken by Mozilla source and api removals.
      • Sidebar and Mail/News are broken because of XUL template removals. See bug 464710.
      • Bookmark Manager broken because of places sync api removal. See bug 1378089.
      • Dumps without the fixes for the Bookmark Manager and friends.
      • See bug 1452448 for current comm-central breakages.
    • [comm-beta]:
      • Linux*: Orange bug 1415803
      • OSX64: *backlogged*
      • Win32: Green
      • Sidebar and Mail/News are broken because of XUL template removals. See bug 464710.
      • Bookmark Manager broken because of places sync api removal. See bug 1378089.
      • Dumps without the fixes for the Bookmark Manager and friends.
      • Do not expect to use the 2.57 release yet other than for brief testing.
      • See bug 1433370 for current 2.57 breakages.
    • [comm-release]:
      • Linux*: Orange bug 1415803
      • OSX64: backlogged
      • Win32: Green
      • Do not expect to use the release yet other than for brief testing.
      • See bug 1379370 for current 2.53 breakages. Tree is at 2.56 already.
    • [comm-esr52]:
  • Notes:
  • See RelEng page for the RelEng status history.
  • Early merge for the mozilla trees will be done Thursday April 26th, 2018. Mozilla-beta at Fx 60 level will move to mozilla-release and mozilla-esr60 then.
    • We should remove the aurora flags from bugzilla in the next cycle.

Release Train

Note: Assuming that Gecko 60 will be the next ESR branch, SeaMonkey 2.57 (now on beta, merges completed) will be the next release, thus patches with l10n-relevant strings had to land in that cycle.

  • Waiting for 2.49.3, Thunderbird has tagged 52.7.0
    • Changesets have been forwarded to ewong, SEAMONKEY_2_49_3_BUILD2 in progress
      • Build 2 based on ESR 52.7.3, bug 1450855 is fixed
      • Localized builds are now available as well for all official platforms
      • Release notes are being reviewed in bug 1444724.
      • 2.49.3 needs to be added to bouncer in bug 1455260.
      • ewong tries to fix the update process for the aus3 server. This is broken since 2.48 and should not block the 2.49.3 release.
  • SeaMonkey 2.49.2 was released on February 15th, 2018
    • Updates from older SeaMonkey versions to 2.49.2 are currently not working (including from 2.48 or 2.49.1). This has been announced on the project page.
      • Updates will not work for the foreseeable future because we are not allowed to use the Mozilla balrog server. ewong is trying to set up a SeaMonkey instance.
    • According to the crash stats the release seems to be generally stable.
    • A meta bug for gtk3 compatibility has been created for 2.49.1 and up bug 1367257.
      • Missing dropmarker in bug 1331208 is fixed in 2.49.2.
      • bug 1398973 is fixed in 2.49.2. Tabs will be visually emphasized. This will affect Windows too.
      • The missing scrollbar buttons patch in bug 1269145 are included in 2.49.2. A followup bug will be opened to see if it can be enhanced.
      • Remaining issues are with menu borders and submenu arrows (Core bug 1267982 and bug 1334679)
    • The Thunderbird/SeaMonkey branch in mozilla-esr52 was updated to the 52.7.2 release level.
      • bug 1412639 Image from eml file not shown in Composer will be included but depends on bug 1332705 "Edit Message as new' does not work for message from file.eml" which will not be fixed for this release.
      • bug 1409458 "Privacy Issue: Replying to or forwarding an HTML e-mail with external content" will not be fixed for this release.
      • bug 1406049 is not yet fixed but has a limited audience.
      • bug 1385667 and bug 1394149 fix build issues with gcc 7. We will evaluate if we can backport them to the TB branch in mozilla-esr52.
    • The 2.49.x releases use branches in hg.
    • Updates for 2.49.1/2.49.2 are not working.
      • bug 1274722 Add %SYSTEM_CAPABILITIES% to the SeaMonkey app.update.url preference.
      • bug 1271761 Add CPU features/detection to update URL.
      • ewong has this almost working now. He just needs to do some cleaning up and do some more tests.
        • Updates are now blocked because we now need to set up our own Balrog Server. Permission to use Mozilla's Balrog setup has been denied. The setup of the update server is now added to the list.
      • cZ, DOMi and the Lightning extension will again be excluded because of the l10n problem tracked in bug 1231349.
    • We are evaluating doing official Linux and Windows x64 builds for future 2.49.x releases.
    • IanN will look into including My and pt-BR locales in a future 2.49.x. frg can create patches based on l10n-release and l10n-central suite but these would need to be manually fixed by the translators and checked into a comm-release branch. We did this with nb-NO in bug 1391174.
  • If it can be made stable a 2.53 Beta might be done later. At least Download Manager and the Bookmarks Manager need additional fixes for this to happen.
    • comm-release (2.53) Fx 56 should be kept current for testing as long as possible because addons still fully work in this release.
    • When 56 becomes EOL we will decide if we do a branch for further testing and bug fixing.
    • frg marked some bugs as 2.53 "affected" instead of "wontfix" in case we do a release from this branch later.
    • frg maintains a local 2.53 with backported comm-central and mozilla-central fixes in case we want to do a 2.53. If this can be maintained till 52.9 will be seen. It might be possible to use Security fixes from Waterfox 56 for this too.
    • IanN thinks we might want to do a 2.53 branch in c-r and m-r so that we can include the backported bugs.
    • Because of general changes in the m-c tree e.g. ChromeUtils.import and other enhancements backporting patches becomes more time consuming.
  • Discussions if we should match minor version numbers with Firefox are still underway. This would need a coordinated change for either c-c or all trees. All minor versions would be changed and the versions would need to be made available in bugzilla. Lightning version calculation needs to be changed. This will be done at a later date and not for 2.49 ESR.
  • Windows x64 releases
    • Unofficial (contributed build) Win64 builds work.
  • Releases will be done off comm-esr52 and then comm-esr60.
    • Patches which do not concern Thunderbird can be checked into comm-esr52 after getting approval too.
  • We might do a 2.53 Beta release at a later time.
    • frg will speak with ewong what he thinks about it.
    • l10n changes would need to be backported too.
  • When 2.57 is finally in beta we are evaluating doing a beta release to see what needs to be done wrt build fixes.
    • Currently a 2.57 beta release should not be announced on the web site because it will be fundamentally broken.

Extensions and Plugins Compatibility Tracking

  • Most extensions are now broken in SeaMonkey 2.54+ because of Mozilla api removals.
    • ChatZilla is broken.
    • DOMi was fixed for 2.55 but has been badly broken by our Mozilla "friends" again recently in 2.56. See bug 1429936.
    • DOMi will no longer work in any Fx58+ version.
    • The devtools can inspect chrome content but this needs to be fixed in SeaMonkey. It works in Thunderbird.
      • DOMi might be retired later when this works. It is currently not built. See also bug 1273222.
    • The addon-SDK has been removed.
    • SMILE has been removed in 2.57.
    • Overlay support will be removed. Thunderbird tries to build a lightweight solutions for converting existing overlays.
    • Lightning is packed directly into Thunderbird now. This is tracked in bug 1451847 for SeaMonkey.
  • WebExtensions support is tracked in bug 1320556. As of now working on this has not started.
    • This would be needed for a ESR60 based SeaMonkey.
    • Some strings may be taken from browser implementation, after 2.57 moved into beta now
  • Evaluation if some extension functionality should be incorporated will need to be done later.
    • Candidates among others are ChatZilla, Lightning, SeaTab X2 and Version Number.
      • ChatZilla development seems to have stopped. IanN thinks he can fix it. Thunderbird includes IM now.

Porting this would be another alternative after the mailpane works again.

  • Mozilla plans to move the Thunderbird and SeaMonkey add-ons to a new site this year. At the current point in time wo don't have any information about it.
    • The old add-ons website api has been removed in bug 1402064 for Gecko 60 and up.
  • Firefox officially removes non-WebExtension add-ons and full-theme support with Gecko 57 [1].
    • new add-ons other than WebExtensions will no longer be accepted for signing as early as Gecko 53.
    • Adblock Plus and uBlock are both broken in SeaMonkey 2.54+
    • Most XUL add-ons are broken in 2.55+ because of api removals.
    • Only bootstrapped add-ons are supported starting with Gecko 61.
    • Extensions using optionsType 2 can no longer be installed starting with Gecko 60. They need to provide an options url only.
    • Thunderbird suggests switching to optionsType 3 and did a fix showing the preferences in the menu list. We need to port the bug for a future release.
    • Isaac Schemm fixed the "AMO Browsing for SeaMonkey" add-on. It can be downloaded from [2].
  • We will evalute the possibility of shipping pdf.js with SeaMonkey in a future release. frg will look into it when he finds some time.

2.x (Last, Current, Next)

  • SeaMonkey Statistics can be viewed at Across all channels we have an approximate ADU of 120k. ADI is about 116,000 on 2.48; about 597,000 on 2.46. Unclear how this translates into installations but around 70.000 users are on the release channel.
  • See Basics page for the usual reminders.
  • Old add-on signing methods has been removed. SeaMonkey and Thunderbird still use them per thread "removing "the old way" of signing add-ons" in Apparently…sions/content/xpinstallConfirm.xul contain the references to them.
  • Unused (in mozilla-central code) xbl bindings are slowly removed. We are being informed about this. stefanh and paenglab did fix the first removals. A shared directory for moved bindings used in all comm-central products has been created.

2.49.x current releases

open tracking (0) tracking requests (5) targeted (0) fixed (66)

2.57.x next release branch

open tracking (0) tracking requests (2) targeted (1) fixed (25)


  • OSX cross-compiling
  • frg did cross compile 2.49.2 OSX on Linux from comm-esr52 and 2.57 from comm-central sucessfully using the instructions from IanN in bug 1379062. He has a small cross compile guide available.
    • We might need to make this work fast with the current Linux builders to still be able to compile Nightly if the last builder fails.
    • The new MacStadium Mini Mac can currently not access some internal sites and is right now not usable for producing builds.
    • It is not sure if the cross-compile can create universal OSX 2.49.x builds needed for plugin suppprt but this will only become urgent if the last Mac Mini dies.
    • Building with the 10.11 SDK currently causes problems in Firefox and macOS 10.13. This is tracked in bug 1391790.
    • For cross compiling a recent Rust cross package and the cross toolchains are needed. For local use they can be extracted from any Firefox macOS taskcluster build.
    • WG9s plans to provide cross-compile builds on his website.
  • We need someone to work on porting sync 1.5 over to replace legacy sync code.

See: New Firefox Sync has landed in Firefox Nightly. Tracked in:

    • bug 998807 Sync account creation or device pairing fails with exception in BrowserIDManager.
    • bug 1003434 Add support for about:sync-progress.
    • As an alternative to porting sync setting up a sync 1.1 server might work.
    • Sync 1.1 has been removed from the mozilla source tree. If we want Sync 1.1 to work we need to fork it.
      • Pro: We control our own sync server and are not left at the mercies of Mozilla the next time they change their sync system.
      • Con: Can't sync with Firefox (unless someone writes a Sync 1.1 client for Firefox).
    • The sync ui has been disabled in 2.57+ in bug 1432273.
  • frg suggests doing an about:credits page for SeaMonkey contributors. This should link to a new list of people on the SeaMonkey project page.
    • IanN suggests about:smcredits.
    • The mozilla credits page still must be linked because there are many SeaMonkey contributors in it and Gecko is also still the foundation we did and are building on.
  • Tests are broken. Priority for new features or ports according to IanN is to get the code working.

frg suggests splitting off the tests to separate bugs for tracking and hopefully fixing in the future. With the current dev resources at hand he is not very hopeful about fixing the tests fast.

  • Stalled. Needs a kick:
    • bug 815954 Click-to-Play: Port bug 812562 (click-to-play blocklisted plugins: reshow urlbar notification as with normal click-to-play).
    • bug 476108 GetShortPathNameW fails under some NTFS junctions [patchlove].
  • Current breakages:
  • Mozilla-central bugs that affect us:
    • A lot of these bugs are due to mozilla-central switching from synchronous APIs to Asynchronous APIs.
    • bug 888915 Move SeaMonkey to the new JavaScript API for downloads when nsIDownloadManager is decommissioned. Needs further work.
  • [rsx11m] did open bug bug 1305902 for certificate pinning. Discussion if it should be enabled for SeaMonkey is still underway. Callek commented in the bug.
  • Nightly and Aurora updates are broken. bug 1321131 might be the cause. Aurora users need to be migrated to another channel if possible.

Feature List, Planning

Bug statistics for the last two (full) weeks: 7 new, 3 fixed, 1 triaged.

  • minimal triaging effort, very low number of new bugs filed.

Open reviews/flags: 32 review 5 super-review 1 ui-review 12 feedback

  • See Feature List page for major wanted/needed features.
  • TODO:
    • Encrypted Media Extensions / Digital Rights Management
      • bug 1127784 added a preference and UI to enable/disable playback of Encrypted Media Extensions, with UI seen in non-release builds only
      • More work appears to be needed to download necessary 3rd-party Content Decryption Modules, some UI can probably be ported from Firefox
  • Mozilla wants to Move Thunderbird off MoCo infrastructure and onto their own, which will likely affect SeaMonkey as well
  • Fundamental core features Firefox/Mozilla plans to remove:
    • bug 1446341 The XUL "tree" widget will be removed from mozilla-central
      • Major bummer, will affect MailNews and other windows
    • bug 1444685 XUL overlays are going away (SeaMonkey)
    • bug 1222546 Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
      • This has been officially removed with Firefox 57. With Firefox 61 theme support has been removed from the source. The Modern theme no longer works in SeaMonkey.
    • bug 1397874 tracks the xbl bindings removal. Only bindings used in Firefox will be kept for now until they are replaced with who-knows-what.
      • Overlays are now also gradually being removed. Mozilla has converted tabbrowser.xml to tabbrowser.js. Needs to be done for SeaMonkey in a later release too.
  • SeaMonkey Composer is outdated. Ratty thinks that using backports or parts of KompoZer [3] might solve some of the problems.
  • x64 Linux and for the first time x64 Windows builds will be made official as soon as possible.
    • Unofficial Linux builds just need to be declared official.
    • Providing Windows x64 builds is tracked in bug 482143.
  • The website and wiki are outdated. InvisibleSmiley no longer maintains the website. The website was updated but it still needs work. Volunteers welcome.
  • frg suggested asking for donations in a future release. Probably during startup or more prominently on the website.
  • frg suggested a tabbrowser.xml overhaul because it's becoming harder to backport fixes from Firefox.
    • IanN suggests doing small patches which are easier to review.
  • There are reports that the PayPal donation on the website doesn't work for USD. It seems the amount is converted to Euro (probably correct if it is a German account).
  • Images should be vectorized and be svg if possible for future updates and HiDPI compatibility.
  • bug 1414390 needs to be ported. intl.locale.requested locale list needs to replace general.useragent.locale. Thunderbird did this in bug 1423532.
  • We need to evaluate if a user agent switcher should be incorporated into SeaMonkey. More and more websites (usps, google) do wrong browser sniffing either deliberately or just using sloppy code. The result is that our users are no longer able to visit these websites without setting a specific UA for it.

Roundtable - Personal Status Updates

IanN generally will handle more complex review requests. frg, rsx11m, stefanh and ewong can also do reviews in their areas of expertise. For bigger changes and branch approvals outside of the build system IanN needs to be involved

Status Updates from developers - what are you working on, what's the progress, any other comments? (feel free to add yourself to the list if your name is missing and you have interesting status).



Waiting for review:

  • bug 1444724 Release notes and website update for SeaMonkey 2.49.3.
  • bug 1378089 Replace the Bookmark Manager with the Firefox Library in SeaMonkey. 2.53 and 2.57 versions done and tested. Already broken again in 2.57 by later changes. Needs to urgently go in for followup bugs and to address the feedback comments. r+ after meeting. l10n impact will be looked into.
  • bug 1439220 Port bug 1437040 "Remove synchronous Bookmarks::GetItemIndex" to SeaMonkey. Ready to go after bug 1378089. r+ after meeting.
  • bug 942937 Deprecation warning "PlacesBackups.getMostRecent is deprecated. Port bug 859695. Ready to go after bug 1378089. r+ after meeting.
  • bug 1454408 Clean up preferences calls needing default values in SeaMonkey. r+ after meeting.

Waiting for feedback:

  • bug 1370314 SeaMonkey 06/2017 installer rollup. Waiting for feedback what should be taken. Probably not much more right now. Took some parts to other bugs.

Waiting for branch approval:

  • Nothing ready for action.

Checkin ready:

  • Nothing ready for action.

Almost done for a long time now:

  • bug 1452486 Remove nsIDOMHTMLInputElement in SeaMonkey. aceman did the patch. Split from bug 1403067. Waiting for the actual removal in bug 1418078.
  • bug 1428282 Replace obsolete toLocaleFormat for SeaMonkey archive folder name generation. Need to do a final test before asking for review.

Working on:

  • Fixing the installer in comm-central. No bug yet. Needs several backports.
  • Followup for bug 888915 Convert SeaMonkey Downloads Manager to Downloads.jsm.

Shelved for later:

  • bug 521861 After creating news account through clicking news URL Account Wizard is broken. On the backburner.
  • bug 1296850 Show standard loading indicator images in tab when busy or progress attribute are set. On the backburner. Asked someone who wants to help out to look at the icons. Got the icons but have no time at the moment.
  • bug 1326377 Media view 'Save As ...' for embedded(?) picture fails. Need to find out how to get the private window status.
  • bug 1379062 Enable cross-compile on SeaMonkey Linux machines. Sucessfully compiled 2.49.2 and 2.57 locally.
  • bug 1392929 Port Bug 886907 [Remove old synchronous contentPrefService] to SeaMonkey. Saved for later.
  • Followups for bug 1379369 to TriggeringPrincipals and UserContextIDs in more functions.

Mostly shelved for now with classic add-on and amo destruction in full swing:

  • bug 1231349 10n repacks broken on with SM 2.42 and newer. DebugQA WIP patch done. extensions temporary disabled to get l10n builds.
  • bug 1374094 Update debugQA extension for older SeaMonkey versions. Need to move a function from editor into the patch and retest it.
  • bug 1402645 Build Lightning binary components for 2.49.1. Needed for 2.49.1!. Temporary fix in the esr branch.
  • Putting updated debugQA and DOMi extensions on AMO. Started with debugQA and noticed that it was no longer compatible with older versions. Will probably never happen with the current state of affairs.


  • 2.58 is broken with a capital B.
  • Filed some bugs and then gave up until 2.57 is in better shape.


Rainer Bielefeld


Working on:


  • bug 1318852 Make labels of cmd_properties action-oriented and context-sensitive, e.g. "Edit Contact", "Edit List", etc.
    • "real" fix

Awaiting new patch for ui-review:



Any other business?

  • The next meeting will be held in three weeks: Sunday May 13, 2018, 14:00 UTC
    • The meeting after that may need to move to a later date too.