Drumbeat/p2pu/weekly call/02 September 2010

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Call Details

We have a weekly community call scheduled for Thursdays at 11AM Eastern, 8AM Pacific, 17.00 Central European Time, 16.00 Greenwich Mean Time.

  1. Canada +1 416 848 3114 Ext. 92 Conference number 7600#
  2. US or Intl. +1 650 903 0800 Ext. 92 Conference number 7600#
  3. US Toll-Free +1 800 707 2533 PW 369 Conference number 7600#

join #education on irc.mozilla.org for backchannel chat.

Agenda items

  •  Promoting your course? 
  •  Bug in P2PU software? (Web Dev 101 is awesome - but not _that_ popular) 
  •  Any other p2pu.org webtech problems? 

2. Webcraft Toolshed at Drumbeat Festival [Pippa, John] 3. Webcraft (and P2PU) Forum environment [Pippa] 

  •  Requirements development - volunteers? 
  •  Django as development framework? 
  •  How to encourage this as a Webcraft Project? 

4. Equbay's Project Management course [Pippa] 

  •  Suitable for webcraft? 
  •  Ok for this round or better to incubate for January? 

5. W3C [Mark]Agenda links 

Who's on the call 

  • Josh
  • Pippa
  • Ahrash
  • Ari
  • Matt
  • Mark
  • Equbay

Notes Pippa: reviewing agenda on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Drumbeat/p2pu/weekly_call/02_September_2010#Agenda_itemsCourse applications so far [Pippa] We have a lot of exciting things you can look at spreadsheet (above). Everyone who is adding a course is being added to Web Dev 101, which is a bug? We will see how  many actually want to take the course on the 15th. Mark  asks, can you remind us all, what are the targets we want to achieve? How hard should we push? Pippa: On average we are looking at about 12 people per course. Some people are already oversubscribed such as the Drupal web applicaton that Nicholas is running do not have as many subscribers as we'd like. How can we improve the course description to encourage more people to sign-up? Pippa: Our goal is to have about 200 people involved. Q: Should we stop  if we reach our goal when we get to 12? Pippa: no, we should continue to encourage people to sign-up. If we get 30 or 40 people to sign-up then we are likely to get some core group of extremely motivated students that is smaller (closer to 10 to 15). Pippa: Encouraged a lot of people to sign-up for her course and set-up a community forum to make up for the fact that we do not have one built into p2pu. Is encouraging people to start discussing with people who have already signed-up. Pippa question: Do we have any other web-tech problems? If you do find a problem while using P2PU website, then you should file a bug in our bugtracker http://tracker.p2pu.org/Ari: We had one question. Two of us are leading our course. Is it possible or not to have two people be marked as instructors for a course? Pippa: Not sure. Put it in as a request on the tracker a sa request and send an email to http://groups.google.com/group/p2pu-dev  (http://groups.google.com/group/p2pu-dev). Ahrash: Not so minor really - I think we should absolutely encourage collaborative co-facilitation of courses and make that obvious.Webcraft Toolshed at Drumbeat Festival [Pippa, John] Pippa: There is a space for the "webcraft toolshed" at the Drumbeat Festival (http://www.drumbeat.org/drumbeat_festival_2010). How can we use this space? Ideas on how to use the webcraft toolshed at the Drumbeat Festival  and what the Festival is about: 

  • Pippa: We can use it as a workshop to teach people how to create courses and use the site to run courses. 
  • Workshopping hacker habits and documenting good web development skills. 
  • If you had fifty people to do web development, what would you want their help on? 
  • Bonus points if you come up with a fairly generic problem set that other people could benefit as well. 
    • Ex: Hackers habits benefit everybody even if they aren't in P2PU. 
  • Pippa: Working out what the teacher training around the web should be. How can we teach the teachers so they can teach young people on how to use the web. 
  • Mark: If you have a piece of a curriculum and want to flush something out this is the place to workshop it. 

Mark: flagship stream

  • anything for webdev education - W3C(Webcraft / OPen Web alliance), Opera all web education tactics
  • cohesion in objectives
  • crossfertilisation
  • workshops and documentation sprints

Ari: We've had 8 or so people who have expressed interest for the course and the majority of them are interested in taking it so they can learn to teach the course. Teachers are interested in learning how to build things for their classrooms; teaching students how to make games. Pippa: P2PU has such an education audience, it is an education experiment, and so we draw teachers into the conversation ... as well as others such as copyright people and there is a little "preaching to the choir" in that sense. Webcraft (and P2PU) Forum environment [Pippa] 

  •  Requirements development - volunteers? 
  •  Django as development framework? 
  •  How to encourage this as a Webcraft Project? 
  • Josh - don't fix on a framework at this (early) point
  • work on requirements of behaviour and tech
    • types of discussions and how to facilitate
    • factors: duration of discussions
      • threaded, archived, branch, attached to courses or have their own space?
    • Has to integrate with existing tech
    • Requirements Document
    • DIY or leverage existing tools

Specify time at assessment workshop to discuss these requirements? good P2PU, tech and Webcraft mix.Ahrash: There has been some confusion on what we want from a discussion thread. What is the scope? Is it course driven? Is it global to the site? How do we want to use it? Where does the demand lie and how do we want to best meet that demand? Agenda Item: Equbay's Project Management course https://wiki.mozilla.org/Drumbeat/p2pu/courses/projectmanprincPippa: Concerns that this course relies upon copyrighted materials.  Does a) this project management focus relate to webcraft, b) do the copyright restrictiions jive with p2pu? Equbay: The videos are open and the methodology is universal to any kind of project management. Mark: The scope of school of webcraft that we are going to promote is about teaching standards based web development. On that basis that this project management topic is a "friendly cousin", it would be an awesome course on its own right, but I'm not sure it passes the test that it relates to "standards based web development."Mark: is the core material of this course locked down in anyway? Are there trademark restrictions? Equbay: One interest in this course is to give people an open learning platform for learning this material and not a replacement to provide people a replacement for getting PMI Certification?  It would be a complementary course. But, might  it be a gateway to certification? Pippa: We should open this up to the community on the P2PU mailing list. We should bring more people versed in copyright into the conversation. Mark: Is it possible that P2PU could have assessement that would lead to some form of certification? is there a legal reason we could not certify something? Equbay: I agree with Pippa, we should move this over to a community discussion and perhaps wait until January before going with the course. W3C

  • Mark: reached out to Open Web Education Alliance
  • WaSP curriculums (are open)
  • competency maps
  • Focussed on University delivery
  • using their materials within P2PU
    • maintaining and improving
  • Webcraft is their term
  • Attending in Barcelona
  • Webcraft and Mozilla officially involved in OWEA
    • leveraging 

Pippa: Starting off, I am using some of the WaSP curriculum for my course as a bit of experience. The WaSP curriculum has a wonderful core curriculum and core set of competencies. How do we map their syllaubus onto other, more focused courses (e.g., Python Programming). How can we get these more focused courses take on one ore more of the specific core competencies covered by the WaSP curriculum. Mark: We need to make it easy for people to have more "uhuh!" moments in terms of who they can collaborate with. We need to find practical, simple ways to make it easy for people to start working together. Ahrash: One of the ways people try to take a list of competencies and  [put them into a learning environment?] is to go ahead and create a fully formed curriculum. One of the problems with this is that often it is hard to get someone to take an entire curriculum and teach it as a course. What excites OWEA about P2PU is that instead of having to take their competencies "wholesale", it would be possible that the core competencies could be mapped to various courses and for their to be an alternative way for people to comprehensively "work through a curriculum". maybe it's like this?Step One: I want to be a WEb Developervvvvvvv (lots of different ways)  vvvvvvStep Three: Certification! (W3C / Mozilla)Josh: Suggested that we map competencies to badges. Pippa: A university focused corriculum might provide a set clear pathway to achieving a degree. But, perhaps what we are offering is an alternative to this more rigid pathway that allows people to choose "mini-pathways" that would allow them be motivated by a "learning on demand" model. [TO Discuss] charter, certification, testing ground, OWEA, W3C, curriculum v. learning on demand