Talk:Drumbeat/p2pu/one pager

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  • Should be 25% shorter.
  • Doesn't mention Mozilla anywhere! How do we want to mention this relationshipn and co-branding opportunity? Mozilla can offer huge credibility and immediate trust. How do we leverage that? (Added to first sentence.)
  • This feels like the right tone mostly, but kind of weak tea in places. Or pulling taffy, where we repeat the same vauge aspirational platitudes. What's needed for the next draft is tightening up sections where we repeat the same vauge truisms, and instead inject more real detail, insider examples, etc.
  • Need more specifics on how to get involved. When courses start, the program structure, etc. Not overly granular process stuff, but right now you could read the whole thing and have little understanding of how to get involved or the practical nuts and bolts of actuall classes.
  • Would be good to test this draft with real developers! Their bullshit detectors will be more finely honed.
  • We haven't mentioned anything above about particular target geographies, like high growth technology sectors with a strong bent towards certification like India, East Asia and Brazil. We want peer learning and accreditation to emerge as open web career path alternatives in these regions.
  • Not enough mention of the benefit of open source? once you begin as a web developer, your skills are easy and affordable for you to implement and legally start developing right away on systems you have immediate access to and can help shape and guide. Becoming not just a web developer, but someone who can influence how web development happens in future.
  • Suggested alt text (1st para): Our classes are globally accessible, 100% free, and powered entirely by learners, mentors, and contributors like you. Our goal: a vibrant, peer-led system that helps people around the world easily access and build careers on open web technology.
  • I would just delete this sentence (2nd para): Instead of the dated or overly theoretical courses offered through traditional programs.
  • In general, I favor a tone that is more about empowerment and opportunity rather than a put-down of existing (and especially commercial) offerings. It can be a tricky negotiation because obvious part of the motivation is indeed the lack of inexpensive, quality pathways to web developer competence. But the point can be made obliquely. For example, At P2PU School of Webcraft, the courses are grounded in real-world projects, utilize the latest technical tools and skills, and are totally organized by a vibrant community of your peers. Don't settle for the same old thing when you can join in the cutting edge of learning, networking, and portfolio-building. Or something like that.
  • I agree with the comment that there should be the occasional mention of concrete steps that can be taken. E.g., Have a course you want to teach? Please do. Or Hoping to improve your web hacker skills? Check out our current catalog.
  • Another thing to emphasize is that P2PU can move much more quickly on current technologies than a traditional university. Things like HTML5 and the Social Web technologies won't be touched for a long time in mainstream schools. Also, an emphasis on pragmatic skills... I haven't seen a 'reading code' class in a traditional university, which is really absurd when you think about it :) These are some of our core value propositions.

Feedback from core P2PU (not School of Webcraft community):

  • I agree with most of the comments on the bottom of the page. Cut the bullshit--the iterative fluff around aspirations, etc. It reads like an ad for a profit venture. I think bringing over some text from the p2pu PR's and site would be good here...
  • One other point (besides all the valid stuff already in the comments), there is this repetition of "hacker" in reference to "mindset" and "attitude"... as a nondeveloper I just don't know what that means. I don't even know if I want to know what it means--it sounds like a community that is closed and/or foreign to me, and not exactly appealing. Maybe a brief history two sentence history on the term and a link to Wikipedia.
  • Otherwise, the actual website for school of webcraft is looking good...
  • I agree to all the comments posted on the wiki. I especially don't like us trying to become the ivy league of web developers or whatever, to me ivy league doesn't give good connotations at all, rather musty, exclusionary, brand rather than content based, etc.
    • one thing that jarred a little is that we call this P2PU School of Webcraft in the first opening paragraph, but then refer to it as P2PU Webcraft from that point on.
  • the reference to 'hacker habits' is very vague and for a lot a people will mislead them. 'Hackers' in this context are self taught programmers rather than the other image that term evokes which is the geek sitting in a dark room hacking into your bank account. I still think Paul Graham' essay 'Hackers and Painters' ( is still one of the most useful pieces in understanding this, and his piece on " The Word Hacker" : . As Jane suggested it might useful to point people to something to get a little context?
  • I agree with above ... the use of the phrase 'ivy league' made me whince a little since it evokes an image of exclusivity and elitism that are think are counter to what we are actually about.
  • The point about about four year degrees was absolutely correct. Its important to bear in mind that there's a difference between the four year degrees that are theoretical like : Computer Science, and the more vocational degrees that are offered by many universities such as the New Media and Web Development. But I agree with the main point which is that these are out of reach, and often redundant by the time you finish your degree. If our industry changes every six months, how relevant is what you have learnt over that four years?
  • "All of these traditional accreditation programs ignore the fact that the best developers teach themselves" - is anyone ever truly self-taught? The best developers or 'hackers' are self motivated and take a pro-active interest in acquiring knowledge, but that knowledge comes from seeking out the resources and peers from whom they can learn. We are all standing on the shoulders of others.
  • Is it me or is the tone of this slightly antagonistic? 'doesn't suck', 'meaningless' etc.
  • Overall I think its just too wordy, and sounds too 'commercial'. It doesn't resonate in the same way some of the pieces we have written for P2PU do? there's a distinct lack of P2PU'ness ( jeez I really got out of bed wrong this morning )I wonder if it could be made more succinct, with more of an emphasis on empowerment? and in the P2PU 'voice' .
  • Oh and finally to parapharase Jerry McGuire ..... "you had me at 'advanced technical ninja' "  ;-)
  • i'm not sure about the title "peer learning on demand"-- we have course rounds, with set start and end dates, so "on demand" feels like a misnomer. (JKCS)

Excess copy cut for length:

The Peer 2 Peer University School of Webcraft will offer online courses focused on practical, project-based developer training. Courses are proposed, developed and led by active web developers, which means they are always up to date and focused on real-world projects. And participants collect badges and certificates for their skills, which industry leaders will recognize and respect. Everything is globally accessible and 100% free and open.

Many traditional accreditation programs ignore the fact that the best developers teach themselves. Even amongst developers with degrees, the most valuable learning is generally self-taught or comes from engagement with peers. This tinkering attitude and the ability to work with peers is crucial, since it's how the best developers learn and practise their craft in the real world.

This should be an important point

Idea's have an energy cost. Please let's learn from our previous mistakes: we polluted the world with our incorrect energy usage.

This doesn't need to happen twice.