This is the agenda and logistics page for Web Compatibility Team Work Week meeting in San Francisco (USA) from June 11 - June 15, 2018.
- 1 Logistics
- 2 Attendees
- 3 Minutes
- 3.1 4.1 Dealing with Diagnosis ( 🐝 )
- 3.2 4.2 browser/os/formfactor labeling ( 🐝 )
- 3.3 4.3 Needinfo / webcompat ping queue lag ( 🐝 )
- 3.4 4.4 One Thousand Paper Cuts of Webcompat.com (karl)
- 3.5 4.5 Webcompat To Bugzilla (karl)
- 3.6 4.6 Etherpad at risk (karl)
- 3.7 4.7 WebCompat.com next (karl)
- 3.8 4.8 Lessons of Heroku as a hosting platform (karl)
- 3.9 4.9 Dashboard check-in and coordination ( 🐝 )
- 3.10 4.10 Module for WebCompat? ( 🐝 )
- 3.11 4.11 IRL OKR Check-in (mike)
- 3.12 4.12 Webcompat.com survival 101 (karl)
- 3.13 4.13 Team Mission Statement (mike)
- 3.14 4.14 What is Webcompat? (karl)
- 3.15 4.15 Experimental Diagnosis Add-on (tom)
- 3.16 4.16 Triage with Karl (Sergiu & Oana)
- 3.17 4.16bis Accounts for testing websites. ( 🐝 )
- 3.18 4.17 Workshop with Mike and Ola (Sergiu & Oana)
- 3.19 4.18 Pre-triage Experiment with the crowd (Sergiu & Oana)
- 3.20 4.19 New Firefox for Android – Fenix version (Sergiu & Oana)
- 3.21 4.20 Webcompat Email bugs (adam_s)
- 3.22 4.21 WebCompat Team Dinner ( 🐝 )
- 3.23 4.22 Contributors Involvement ( 🐝 )
- 3.24 WebCompat Policy discussion ( 🐝 )
- 3.25 Kate's awesome "Next Bug" Application ( 🐝 )
- 4 Agenda
- 5 Topics Bank
- 5.1 Dealing with Diagnosis
- 5.2 browser/os/formfactor labeling
- 5.3 Needinfo / webcompat ping queue lag
- 5.4 One Thousand Paper Cuts of Webcompat.com (karl)
- 5.5 Webcompat To Bugzilla (karl)
- 5.6 Etherpad at risk (karl)
- 5.7 WebCompat.com next (karl)
- 5.8 Lessons of Heroku as a hosting platform (karl)
- 5.9 Dashboard check-in and coordination
- 5.10 Module for WebCompat?
- 5.11 IRL OKR Check-in (mike)
- 5.12 Webcompat.com survival 101 (karl)
- 5.13 Team Mission Statement (mike)
- 5.14 What is Webcompat? (karl)
- 5.15 Experimental Diagnosis Add-on (tom)
- 5.16 Triage with Karl (Sergiu & Oana)
- 5.17 Workshop with Mike and Ola (Sergiu & Oana)
- 5.18 Pre-triage Experiment with the crowd (Sergiu & Oana)
- 5.19 New Firefox for Android – Phoenix version (Sergiu & Oana)
- 5.20 Webcompat Email bugs (adam_s)
- 5.21 WebCompat Team Dinner
- 5.22 Contributors Involvement
- Location: San Francisco, USA
- Hotel: Marriott Marquis
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Adam Stevenson||Monday 19:00||Saturday 12:00|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Dennis Schubert||Monday 16:00||Sunday 09:22|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Karl Dubost||Monday 10:35||Sunday 12:20|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Mike Taylor||Monday 17:18||Friday 23:59|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Oana Arbuzov||Sunday 14:55||Saturday 13:45|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Ola Gasidlo||Friday 14:30||Saturday 13:55|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Sergiu Logigan||Sunday 14:55||Saturday 13:45|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Tom Wisniewski||Monday 16:00||Saturday 22:45|
|San Francisco Marriott Marquis||Kate Manning||Monday 17:30||Saturday 11:00|
Scribed by Everyone!
4.1 Dealing with Diagnosis ( 🐝 )
- mike: How do we get better, faster? it's a topic that will take a bit of time. We could discuss it on Friday. I want to be constructive in that discussions.
- dennis: It was difficult. I didn't spend enough time on it. GoFaster took priority with a lot of sollicitations from the rest of Mozilla.
- mike: There is a lot of interests at Mozilla for Webcompat GoFaster.
- dennis: A lot of time was spent on communications, more than coding.
- tom: Some of the stuff I was doing was similar to the ones of dennis. Juggling with time was hard. Sometimes you get a ping which focuses my attention for the addons which divert from other tasks.
- mike: There is a lot of unexpected work coming in on a regular basis.
- tom: I would usually try to not multitask in a day.
- karl: To not have challenges, I decided to spend Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday on diagnosis. Except, if there was a sec issue, or something very urgent or breaking webcompat.com. I focused Thurs on webcompat.com, and Friday was usually a mix of diagnosis and development. The challenge I had was when pinging others in the team, and not get responses in a timely manner. This being on hold meant not being able to conclude a diagnosis.
- mike: One of my previous managers was super tough on time. Maybe we could have a policy in the team, that we should reply on 48h.
- adam: …
- mike: we will have labels that will make it easier to track these.
- sergiu: Could we have a notification system?
- mike: we could have a bot.
- adam: if there's an important issue, i don't feel bad sending a personal ping saying this is important.
- mike: I did this time to time.
- tom: would it be worth adding a needinfo-now? and needinfo?
- karl: the more we add process, the more it means things aren't working.
- adam: Depending on the backlog, if you think it will take forever, we can pro-actively contact someone from the site before the diagnosis is finished.
- mike: we need to do a better job at planning for unpredictable jobs coming in between projects. The diagnosis work is important. The faster we do this, we can channel
- karl: we solved the issue we had with needstriage, where it was taking a long time to traige bugs. now the diagnosis is having the same issue. speed is something important. the circumstances of the page might change quickly, and we might lose the bug (but it still exists). a lot of bugs become invalid.
- dennis: Some issues are hard because they might take two days.
- tom: As a policy I could spend only 2 hours and come back to it later, if I don't manage to find anything I would contact someone else, or see if we can reach out the site.
- mike: if it's YouTube we should take the time.
- dennis: The daily way of working like Karl would not work well for me.
- mike: we should recognize that everyone has a different way of organizing. We could have dashboards (private) for managing time.
- karl: my goals it that we find a place where we work as a team. not individual people working on diagnosis. we have each others back and take out the trash together.
4.2 browser/os/formfactor labeling ( 🐝 )
- mike: 5 minutes topics?
- everyone: no.
- karl: (quieting writing on whiteboard)
- dennis: complaining that just want to look at Firefox desktop or mobile issues, we have many different labels that can be assigned due to dynamic labeling.
- dennis: I have a list of the labels for each now, but it's a pain
- karl: I made a temporary fix to this. There is a list of browsers and if it doesn't match in the list it goes to 'browser-fixme' label. We still need to clean up the previous labels, will write a script to pass all the bugs and relabel
4.3 Needinfo / webcompat ping queue lag ( 🐝 )
mike (dad): There have been instances where we have not been very useful in answering the notifications. bugzilla is cool for needinfo. web-bugs on GitHub doesn't have this state. Since we are a small team, we could have needinfo-nickname for each of us.
- oana: what about dashboard
- karl: we each have an activity page we could have a list of all your needinfos
4.4 One Thousand Paper Cuts of Webcompat.com (karl)
- karl: message is next quarter we should prioritize the minor issues with the UI that make it easier to work with
- mike: we should all sit down and review the open issues on the UI.
4.5 Webcompat To Bugzilla (karl)
- karl: related to using the webcompat.com UI, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/webcompat-to-bugzilla/
- karl: i don't know if you know about this addon, it's working. on the bottom right you have a go to webcompat.com link.
- karl: just this helps a lot to use webcompat.com. also, when you're there it provides features for creating new bugs in bugzilla.
- karl: you can also close as a duplicate issue.
- sergiu: can we replace radios with checkboxes?
- karl: right now it's eric who is maintaining this in his personal github. is this OK?
- mike: i think we could ask him to move it to webcompat (and then mike immediately convinced himself this is a bad idea)
4.6 Etherpad at risk (karl)
- karl: Etherpad is unsupported. They want to kill it. Unmaintained. We need to find a place for our scribings / agendas.
- mike: options?
- karl: Other etherpads exist. Google Docs (but i'm not a big fan).
- kate: I've heard of firepad.
- karl: another option is scribing from irc.
- mike: a new channel or existing?
- karl: the scribing is easy. the agenda is more complicated.
- karl: we have time, let's start thinking about transition.
4.7 WebCompat.com next (karl)
- mike: this is a planning session, longer than 5 minutes
4.8 Lessons of Heroku as a hosting platform (karl)
- karl: Probably something to discuss with mike on hosting/devops discussions for our projects. In fact anyone which has a hosted project. Right now webcompat-metrics-server is on heroku, and it is both practical and painful. Pros: You can deploy with just a merged pull request (testing included). Cons: There's no filesystem, only one choice of DB. No configuration for HTTP caching, gzipping.
4.9 Dashboard check-in and coordination ( 🐝 )
- mike: summary: adam, kate, karl and guillaume are working on dashboards and i want to have a discussion about how we can coordinate the work.
4.10 Module for WebCompat? ( 🐝 )
- mike: see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules for an introduction what Modules are and what this means for project governance
- mike: essentially, it is a way to "decentralize" power and have dedicated responsibilities.
- mike: the question is: does this kind of thing make sense for the webcompat project?
- karl: I think we have had cases in the past where it was difficult to make a decision, or where the dicision took longer than it should have. it could be easier if we'd have dedicated people responsible for parts of the project.
- mike: what you are describing sounds like there sometimes are situations where a decision lacks "an owner"
- karl: and people didn't feel comfortable sharing concerns, and ultimately, some topics got back to mike's desk
- mike: let's say we designate Dennis as the module owner for GoFaster, we should be very liberal of encouraging that. we should be supporting to someone who wants to take over responsibility, and make decisions if needed.
- dennis: isn't this kind of what we do to some extent? blipz, gofaster, etc?
- kate: it might be, but i don't know who these people are.
- karl: maybe owner is a strong term. maybe we have a wiki page that lists who these stewards are.
- karl: for example right now, i would say triage is no longer adam and karl, it's oana and sergiu.
- oana: should it be a good thing to have everyone on a page to list who to contact for idea/problems/
- sergiu: table of names/ responsibilities/ownerships.
- tom: we could also just call it "peers", to stay at the Firefox terminology
- mike: so, it looks like we generally think this is a good idea.
- mike: there might be a need for actual mozilla modules some time in the future.
4.11 IRL OKR Check-in (mike)
- https: //github.com/mozilla/webcompat-team-okrs/projects/1
- mike: Done wooohoo.
4.12 Webcompat.com survival 101 (karl)
- mike: we were discussing about doing an archive static (karl's idea?) of old pages.
- adam: that seems like a good idea. It could be an issue for old bugs getting reopened.
- karl: we can lock the bug and put a message that we should open a new bug.
- mike: That sounds like an interesting projects. You can close a bug and leave a message.
- RESOLUTION: Interesting project and we can do it during a work week in a (not immediate) future.
4.13 Team Mission Statement (mike)
- mike: not a 5min discussion. We should have probably a document which document why webcompat team exists. It would be a guiding for individuals and others outside of the team.
4.14 What is Webcompat? (karl)
- karl: same thing as above, but for each of us to share what webcompat means to each of us and share
- mike: should do this before we leave
- karl: i want everyone to tell us what webcompat is for them!
- adam: "what isn't webcompat?" - "website that works on one browser but not another"
- adam: the pain points or the price we have to pay for not having a browser monoculture.
- dennis: i like the mozilla manifesto way of defining the internet as a global public resource that should be open and accessible to all, regardless of choices (browser, countries, device).
- dennis: webcompat is obviously a problem because it prevents them from doing that. it's an important component to this idea.
- tom: preventing bad monoculture is the ultimate goal. to me, it's figuring out who is doing things right and wrong together on the web. and fixing that, so that everyone is right.
- oana: i agree with others. it's a link between users and site owners, and help people who are having problems on the web.
- sergiu: as an idea, it's the last thing that should disappear from the web. it should be eternal. related to our project, it's a place where others come to vent because something doesn't work for them. and a place for non-technical people can come and log bugs for the web. it would be nice for webcompat.com in the future to be a place where webpages owners could come and see what their issues are.
- kate: i like the idea of there being diversity, and there being choices for browsers and for developers. i agree with much of what has been said. diversity of users, developers, environments.
- karl: it should not exist. if the world was perfect, the work should not need to exist. interop should be by default. the fact that we need to solve these issues. the mission of webcompat is to fix the lack of interop on the web. i don't care that the webcompat team is part of mozilla. i'm happy to be here. but i think it should be across companies. the web is important. it's my DNA.
- mike: agrees with everything. interop between all web things: protocols, browsers, rendering...
- mike: WebCompat is a superset of interop: it's not just technical issues, but also social discussions and business decisions.
- mike: WebCompat is trying to solve all those issues, so websites work for people. agrees that there are parts of the mozilla manifesto that matches what we do.
- mike: nothing you work on to "win", because the success is hard to measure.
- karl: "When you have a health crisis in a country, there are two solutions: you can educate people and change their behaviour, having policies for sewage systems, ...; at the same time, you also need emergency services, which, in the mean time, solve issues for sick people"
- karl: WebCompat is the "emergency services" part
- adam: WebCompat is both, we spend time fixing the core problems, but we also work on fixing the actual issues.
- tom: So we are the first responders for broken websites? :)
- mike: Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes we come back to a crash scene later and investigate. And sometimes, we do proactive things.
4.15 Experimental Diagnosis Add-on (tom)
- mike: we've got a lightning talk about this!
- tom: and just to reiterate: if you'd like another demo, or have questions, ping me. Or file issues on GitHub. https://github.com/webcompat/tinker-tester-developer-spy
- tom: This is something we'd like to grow out of our team soon, so if you have feedback this quarter, this would be cool
- karl: right now, if you want to use it, you have to build it yourself...
- tom: I'm on the edge of releasing it and uploading it to AMO, should be done within weeks.
- https: //github.com/webcompat/tinker-tester-developer-spy
4.16 Triage with Karl (Sergiu & Oana)
- karl: this is a group excersise to Triage with me. Whenever we have time, we can do this.
- karl: DONE. Discussed about debuggers, flexbox, fonts, etc.
4.16bis Accounts for testing websites. ( 🐝 )
- oana: sometimes we need an account.
- mike: banks it's practically impossible apart of a friend of a friend.
- sergiu: banks, university, govs.
- mike: for paid accounts, we should be able to do it.
- adam: Often I close this type of issues. It's hard to make contact to begin with, and even harder to get an account.
- mike: so if we do not have a ton of information to begin with, it's probably not worth the effort. It can be very difficult. Example?
- sergiu: NYTimes.
- oana: once we have an account, we can deeply test the full site in addition of the issue.
- kate: Should paid sites be more willing to fix their sites?
- mike: They should… (laughs)
- RESOLUTION: adam is the person to go for knowing if we can get a paid account for testing a specific website.
4.17 Workshop with Mike and Ola (Sergiu & Oana)
- mike: This is about building webcompat.com?
- sergiu_oana: yes.
- oana: still not working on windows.
4.18 Pre-triage Experiment with the crowd (Sergiu & Oana)
- oana: we're still waiting, will start after all-hands.
- mike: Do we think it is a good idea?
- oana: yes.
- mike: we should think on how to graduate this from prototype to a working process.
- oana: maybe a new section on webcompat.com called pre-triage?
- mike: that could be interesting.
- karl: what about Oana and Sergiu coming back with a proposal and we discuss further
4.19 New Firefox for Android – Fenix version (Sergiu & Oana)
- sergiu: How our job will be impacted by this project.
- mike: this is not a 5min discussion. It will take time. We should take time today to discuss with Chris Peterson (Product Manager for Gecko View).
- sergiu: We should resume local testing for Fenix specically.
- oana: We could prioritize USA.
- mike: and maybe Germany.
4.20 Webcompat Email bugs (adam_s)
- adam: do we care? there was a bug that came thru via Mike Kaply that he received from a restaurant. and there was an interop issue in gmail in firefox.
- dennis: gmail does lots of scary things.
- tom: it seems like this was an interop issue.
- mike: i think we should care if things come to us.
- adam: how should we deal with reporting issues?
- mike: I guess we should care. Just let's be careful about privacy issues.
- karl: yes, and the number is so low that might not be an issue. Let's deal with it on case by case.
- RESOLUTION: We will care on case by case basis as long there is not a huge number.
4.21 WebCompat Team Dinner ( 🐝 )
- mike: great success.
4.22 Contributors Involvement ( 🐝 )
- mike: we should have some way to show appreciation of our contributors efforts. maybe a care package, public mentions, ...
- karl: maybe we need something more personal, and not just stickers or a tshirt. maybe something like the Open Innovations notebooks, a drinking bottle, ...
- mike: we also should always try to have people invited to All Hands, and should always be thinking about recognizing the work they do
- karl: I'd love if we'd find something that is nice to send to them.
WebCompat Policy discussion ( 🐝 )
Meta-bug for tracking prefixed properties: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=775235 Definition of WebCompat is still unclear to some people, we need to come up with Metrics or something to define an actual goal and measure success Something like WPT? Example of the reations to removing something that we thought was safe to remove: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=765645
Kate's awesome "Next Bug" Application ( 🐝 )
Demo from Kate.
- 6:00pm - 9:00pm. Opening Reception.
- 9:00am - 11:30am Plenary
- 11:30am - 1:00pm Lunch
- 1:00pm - 5:00pm Lightning talks and other interesting things
Dinner: on your own or with friends!
- 9:00am - 11:30am Interesting sessions + impromptu meetings
- 11:30am - 1:00pm Lunch
- 1:00pm - 5:00pm Interesting sessions + impromptu meetings
Team Dinner: Atrium 2, Marriott Marquis hotel, 6:00pm
- 9:00am - 10:45am Team Discussions
- 11:00am - 12:00pm Web Compatibility Policy Discussion (Nob Hill B)
- 12:00pm - 1:00pm Lunch
- 1:00pm - 5:30pm Team Discussions
- 2:30pm - 4:30pm Blipz meeting (for those involved or interested)
Dinner: on your own or with a friend
- 9:00am - 9:50am Team discussions
- 10:00am - 12:00pm Mozilla Developer Faire
- 12:00pm - 1:00pm Lunch
- 1:00pm - 4:00pm Team discussions
- 4:00pm - 4:30pm Discussion with SecEng on reporting TP bugs
- 4:30pm - 5:00pm Team discussions
- 7:00pm - 11:00pm Closing event at Exploratorium
Use the following template in one of the section below:
==== Topic ==== Description with [http://example.com links] when necessary
Dealing with Diagnosis
How do we do this.
About labels by denschub is partially resolved, but I would like a discussion with oana and sergiu who are on the front line about their needs for triage/re-triage and how we can translate that in a better labelling and UI.
- Are version numbers useful for triage in labels (They are already in the post)?
- What is the essential information that is useful to read the data?
- When labels are too crowded, how can we surface in a better way the information in the UI?
- Is it about webcompat.com or labels in GitHub?
Needinfo / webcompat ping queue lag
We need to get better at responding to our peers and bug reporters. Let's talk about strategies for this.
One Thousand Paper Cuts of Webcompat.com (karl)
The new redesign has been done, but there are some paper cuts that need to be fixed. Maybe we should create a new scope label: papercut
Webcompat To Bugzilla (karl)
(DEMO?) An accelerator to process issues. It is working well. Maintained by MDTsai. What should we do to evolve it? https://github.com/MDTsai/webcompat-to-bugzilla/
Etherpad at risk (karl)
What do we do with the information stored there? Do we back-it up on the wiki? Or let it rest for ever in the oblivion? Do we change platform for taking minutes too?
WebCompat.com next (karl)
Features we want to focus on in the next 6 months. We need to think impact for users and realistic time to create/manage them.
Lessons of Heroku as a hosting platform (karl)
I put this to quickly share what I learned and the Pros and Cons of moving to Heroku for hosting.
Dashboard check-in and coordination
Where are we at with our current efforts? Where do we want to be?
Module for WebCompat?
Does a Mozilla-style module ownership model make sense for the WebCompat project and its sub-projects (webcompat.com, addons, report site issue, go faster..)?
Let's come to a decision together.
IRL OKR Check-in (mike)
Just like it says.
Webcompat.com survival 101 (karl)
Mapzen closed its doors. Here an interesting take on the way they developed their project. What can we learn and do from this?
"Early on at Mapzen, we were planning some new project. I asked a question that kind of scared me: “How would this survive the death of the company?” We weren’t close to death, and it scared me because who wants to hear that from the CEO? But it captured what we were doing in this special point in time and inspired our work. We had the chance to build everything to survive, and we did it. And we planned it all along the way to survive past our own existence."
SeeAlso GitHub/Microsoft… There are two different things:
- Project development https://github.com/webcompat/webcompat.com and all others projects.
- The Database, aka https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues
Team Mission Statement (mike)
Review and finalize a team mission statement, including norms around communication to eachother and the outside world.
What is Webcompat? (karl)
Tied to the Team Mission Statement proposed by mike, but more on the side of defining what is webcompat for each of us in 3 minutes. This should help clarify and understands our own boundaries and see how we can do a better mission statement.
Experimental Diagnosis Add-on (tom)
A dive into how to use the current version of the add-on, as well as collecting feedback and brainstorming desired improvements. The basic aim is to help reduce the time we spend diagnosing issues by enabling more powerful diagnosis features.
Triage with Karl (Sergiu & Oana)
A new session for tips and tricks on how to improve Triage process (How to add breakpoints in WebIDE/How to open iframes in separate window/How to modify JS scripts in WebIDE/How to stop webpages refreshing).
Workshop with Mike and Ola (Sergiu & Oana)
A session on how to work with webcompat.com DEV (how to start local server, make changes, make pull requests) Notes: Any news how to start Webcompat server on Windows? #issue 2267 Unable to start the Local Server on Windows 10
Pre-triage Experiment with the crowd (Sergiu & Oana)
Discuss results and future plans (how are we scaling this?)
New Firefox for Android – Phoenix version (Sergiu & Oana)
Discuss how will we handle the testing process (will we restart testing locales on the new version?)
Webcompat Email bugs (adam_s)
This recently came up. How to handle webcompat issues that occur in Gmail using Firefox but not Chrome? How can someone report that to us?
WebCompat Team Dinner
Suggesting we all go out for a team dinner.
How can we involve more the most significant contributors, like reinhart1010 (Reinhart Previano K., Jakarta, Indonesia), wellington1993 (Wellington Torrejais da Silva, Maringá, Paraná, Brasil), haseebgit (Abdul Rauf, Gulbarga, India), birajkarmakar (Biraj Karmakar, India)