SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2017-01-24

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SeaMonkey Meeting Details

Contents

Agenda

  • Who's taking minutes? -> TBD
  • Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank:
    • TBD

Special agenda from the last meeting (for reference)

Release Planning next release

  • Mozilla plans to remove XUL and classic extensions by the end of 2017. While it is still unclear if the time table is realistic the future outlook is bleak.
  • It is unclear if the current SeaMonkey developer team can fix the upcoming build breaks fast enough to do regular releases.
  • SeaMonkey 2.50a1 (FF 53) is building but this may change at any time. l20n is planned for FF 53 and might disrupt l10n building again.
  • The consensus seems to be to do a ESR 52 cycle for the next SeaMonkey release. This would mean SeaMonkey 2.49 will become an ESR release still providing Windows XP and Vista compatibility.
  • Thunderbird has been ESR only since the beginning of the train model. The biggest obstacle/restriction is that no string changes are allowed.
  • Doing a 2.49 ESR will give the developer team a breather to fix the upcoming breaks in the mozilla source tree.
  • Forking the Mozilla source tree is not an option. The dev team is too small and would not be able to even fix all upcoming security bugs in a forked Gecko engine.

Release Planning mid/long term

  • Mid/Long term release planning was not discussed because of time constraints. It will be put on the agenda of the next status meeting.
  • It was suggested that we set up own builders to become more independent of Mozilla. adriank already has a working build system based on Jenkins. Ratty and ewong would like to set up one based on buildbot. No decision needed right now but this needs to be worked out.
  • A new build system should provide try builds and should us also enable doing automated tests again.

Discussion

Ratty screwed up and didn't update the 2017-01-10 meeting with the notes. So here they are again. sumimasen, sumimasen, honto ni sumimasen.

Benefits for 2.49ESR as opposed to whatever is comm-release:

  • ESR will get security fixes for 12 months.
  • After that we can cherry-pick and backport stuff. FRG thinks that will give us 18+ months on ESR-49.
  • We want to keep XP/Vista support, plug-in support other than Flash, full themes and XUL overlay extensions for a bit longer.
  • It'll give us some breathing space. We can even innovate and do some feature work. We could selectively back port feature work.
  • But no string changes would be allowed on ESR.
    • [Ratty] The way Thunderbird does releases on ESR and get new string changes is to do releases on comm-beta and then copy the new strings to their ESR-L10n.
  • [Callek] I agree it gives some more breathing room around a release train, but as Thunderbird has noticed, doing it that way still means we need beta's, because we need to work with and track changes that are necessary for future, otherwise we're in a boat of "hey there was 100k changesets between this working esr and this broken one, what.
  • [Ratty] For me personally the breaking point is removal of support for XUL extensions and "Full Themes". At this point I'm going to switch my focus to ESR [FRG] The same.
  • Build System
    • Basically we need a build system that is simple but allows lets us have localised extensions.
    • [IanN] In an ideal world we would like to merge mozilla-ESR into comm-ESR so we have a unified repository.
    • This would among other things, simplify the build process,
    • jcranmer has been doing some testing in the Cypress twig repository but that work has stalled since jcranmer lost interest.
    • [FRG] Whatever is decided should be decided with TB together. I don't think we will be able to do it alone.
    • Will the build system we use depend on whether we join forces with TB? TB will continue to use buildbot, so the question whether we adapt to their buildbot configuration or they adapt to us.
    • It would it be a good idea that we come up with a basic plan of what infra we need and finalize the structure and then let Callek have a looksee?
  • Ratty is prepared to fork out some cash to get some independent infrastructure working.
  • Q: what TB are going to do about infrastructure. [Ratty] They have hired a systems architect to do the planning for their new infrastructure.
  • One issue that ewong is concerned about. since a lot of our current infra interact with moco-internal stuff (api tooltool and the upload servers to name a few).
  • We need to be able to upload those nightlies to stage (archive.m.o) and the symbol server. And eventually we'll need to be able to upload data to "Balrog" (the update server) which we'd currently need to upload that data to our own update server.
    • So we either ask them to whitelist those external ips or we duplicate the kind of setup they have.
  • FRG asks if we could put a donation page into the SeaMonkey 2.48 first start page. Instead of the regular hello new release page we could redirect to another page on seamonkey-project.org.

Action Items

(who needs to do what that hasn't been recorded in a bug) We should assign people to the open items.

NEW

OPEN

  • Mozilla plans to check in l20n early in the Firefox 53 release cycle. Unclear what this means for comm-central and the build configs. Needs to be monitored.
    • in light of this and other changes in 52+, releasing 2.49.x off 52 ESR becomes an increasingly attractive option
  • Google announced V4 of the safebrowsing api. No actions currently needed. Firefox adds support for it in bug 1167038.
  • Google API key for Safe Browsing. Ewong/Callek about getting it loaded onto the build machines.
    • Per bug 903439#c10, ewong has a Google API key (stating that for Geolocation service). Safe Browsing keys are on the builders according to ewong. The build configs are currently being reviewed.
  • IanN has spoken to mcsmurf about members list. Members mailing-list and council appointments are ready to be reviewed.
    • TODO: Add Adrian Kalla to RelEng team. Overall no change as of today
  • IanN SeaMonkey project areas is very outdated. IanN plans to prepare the final draft of the project areas this week.
  • frg suggests a tabbrowser.xml overhaul because it's becoming harder to backport fixes from Firefox.
    • IanN suggests doing small patches which are easier to review.
  • frg thinks we should try to get our own builders.
    • where, which build environment, how to cover associated costs?

CLOSED

Status of the SeaMonkey Buildbot Master and Tree

  • Various Bugs open for building.
    • OSX64: busted due to bug 1260362. Yasm 1.2 needs to be installed. (Ratty: Depends on bug 1257904. How to get traction on this?)
    • Linux64 Nightly: bug 1275215 is still open but Linux is building most of the time.
    • Linux64 build: bug 1275218 is still open but Linux is building most of the time.
    • Windows building on the loaner works.
    • Various l10n and other bugs bug 1293943 which might also impact the release schedule. Currently no clear overview available.
    • Note for this session: due to some weird horkage on the master (my bad), the master had to be restarted(and by restarted, I meant the buildbot process and not the system). The following status isn't updated as I don't have actual information as to the actual status. (Though, I know for sure Trunk is green as that's the only tree that was built since I had restarted the master).
  • CZ langpacks seem to be disabled by default, so that needs to be sorted.
  • DOMi still needs to be sorted.
  • The block lists are no longer updated. Covered by bug 1315878.
  • [10th January 2016]
    • Tests have been re-enabled to enable us to find out what's busting them. bug 1295826 tracks the fixes for the Testing Infrastructure.
      • All tests are red.
    • [comm-central]:
      • All Platforms: Green (though OSX64 is backlogged, but it should be green).
      • See bug 1319091 for current breakages.
    • [comm-aurora]:
      • Linux*: Green
      • OSX64: Orange/Green
      • See bug 1313304 for current breakages.
    • [comm-beta]
      • Pretty much Green/Orange.
    • [comm-release]:
      • Green/Orange.
  • Notes:
    • Callek: Regarding the windows systems, sadly no progress yet. I'm hopeful we can get done sooner than later, I'm realistic expecting it won't be any time soon.
    • Ewong will set up a cron job to do semi regular builds on the loaner machine. He is still unable to set a timeframe for the next release. The moco build system is constantly changing. The MAC builders can be updated to OSX 10.9. He needs to consult with Callek first about this. He has trouble building the Windows version on the loaner.
    • Windows nightly trunk builds are unavailable due to various bugs such as bug 1092468 and bug 1108970. Migrating our Windows builders to Win2008 and our compiler toolchain to VS2015 would likely solve this and other bustages. Ewong made substantial progress here and building works on the loaner.
    • There are also some upcoming changes to l10n build system in Q1 2015 (bug 1107635).
    • Langpacks aren't updated when auto-updating SeaMonkey because they aren't uploaded to AMO. The solution requires changes in SeaMonkey RelEng (and possibly AMO).
    • wrt bug 1155011, we already have a Soccoro token. The patches on bug 1155013 require approval and then pushed and the work-around patches backed out.
  • See RelEng page for the RelEng status history.

Fixed Stuff Since Last Meeting

Release Train

  • SeaMonkey 2.46 was released December 22, 2016, tracked in bug 1294433
    • Issues with this release:
      • l10n problem is tracked in (bug 1231349).
      • Chatzilla and DOMi repack problems are also tracked in bug 1315552.
    • Release notes in bug 1302639.
    • Setting the default search engine no longer works (bug 1265881).
  • 2.48 beta is in preparation (bug 1328886).
    • gtk3 will be disabled for beta and likely release builds.
      • There are at least three problems with gtk3 builds which may not be resolved in time (bug 1269145, bug 1267982, bug 1331208).
      • a regression for gtk2 builds since 2.40 has been identified but is limited to certain desktop themes and doesn't seem to affect the most current OS version (bug 1312215).
      • Building releases with gtk2 is only a short time solution and will no longer be possible with Gecko 53 (SM 2.50, thus would still allow 2.49 gtk2 builds). Probably a meta bug for gtk3 compatibility should be created.
  • ewong: Suggests the following:
    • Officially release a linux64 build (incl. tests)
      • Start with 2.50 (or if we don't make it, 2.51) trunk.
      • Not entirely sure what is needed to make it official. Need to correspond with Callek.
    • Build an unofficial (contributed build) Win64 build. [akin to the status that Linux64 has now.]
      • Start with 2.51 (we need to iron out the build issues, though right now, having just finished a W64 build, we might be able to have it available with 2.50; but I don't know how the tests are going to work(though this will need to wait).
      • Currently tracked by bug 482143.
  • Backup plan in case we need it is to do some releases off comm-esr52. These would be 2.49.x releases. No current plans until Mozilla suddenly removes full theme support or anything else which would severely break SeaMonkey.
    • Firefox plans removal of non-WebExtension add-ons and full-theme support with Gecko 57 [1].
    • Patches which do not concern Thunderbird could be checked into comm-esr52 (once established) after getting approval too.
    • Thunderbird solved l10n issues with their 49.0 beta, hopefully that procedure is transplantable to SeaMonkey.
  • Useful Firefox Release Schedule link: Releases Scheduling
    • Merges completed January 23rd (mozilla-beta → mozilla-release was merged January 16th), trunk now on SM 2.51.
    • Because of the following bugs updates need to be tested if they are still working:
      • bug 1274722 Add %SYSTEM_CAPABILITIES% to the SeaMonkey app.update.url preference
      • bug 1271761 Add CPU features/detection to update URL
        • 2.48 is 'lightly' blocked on our ability to migrate from AUS2 to Balrog as the above mentioned bugs might be difficult with AUS2. bug 1254401

Extensions and Plugins Compatibility Tracking

  • SeaMonkey Council is looking into setting up a separate add-ons site for SeaMonkey extensions. This would fix long standing issues we have with AMO.
    • [Ratty] Suggests that if we do this, we can also host the Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey.
  • Firefox plans removal of non-WebExtension add-ons and full-theme support with Gecko 57 [2].
  • Firefox plans to disallow all NPAPI plugins other than Flash with Gecko 52 (bug 1269807, [3], [4]).
    • builds will receive a run-time check ignoring (i.e., not loading) all plugins other than Flash.
      • exception is the m-esr52 branch which will not perform this check (other than Win64 platforms per bug 1165981).
      • in Gecko 52 only, this will be controlled by a pref plugin.load_flash_only which is planned to be removed with Gecko 53.
        • bug 1308273 flips that pref to allow all plugins in 2.49 at least. (landed)
    • SeaMonkey might release a 2.49 ESR build based on FF 52 ESR code. Nothing decided yet.
    • any workarounds or code in dom/plugins specific to other plugins may be subsequently removed.
  • DOMi langpacks aren't working. Chatzilla langpacks show as disabled on a new profile.
    • IanN has locale merge working for Chatzilla. He will be working on the DOMi repack issues tonight.
    • See also bug 652063 (Enable localized ChatZilla builds).
  • See Basics page. Please only list current changes here.
  • Addons are now compatible by default. The code in the addon manager that complains about incompatible version numbers has been removed. This should reduce the friction of installing older addons.
  • Addon Compatibility Listings (outdated), alternative list started (currently Rainer Bielefeld is the only active maintainer)
  • We are looking for a new place to host the Addon Compatibility Listings for the Add-on Converter in order to make it easy to maintain and to serve as the main database for the AMO browsing extension in the future. The details are in this post.
  • Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey http://addonconverter.fotokraina.com/
    This tool goes a little further beyond simply modifying install.rdf - it also identifies a few more other things in the code that are Firefox or Thunderbird specific and attempts to change them. Of course, not all extensions can be ported so easily to SeaMonkey since there's only so much an automated tool like that can do.
    • Lemon Juice continues to improve his already impressive Addon Converter. The source is now available on GitHub [5].
    • We are looking for a better(?) home for extension-converter pages, along with a way to track successful and conversion-failed add-ons, and respective integration into SeaMonkey by add-on or manager overlay [6], bug 1145026.
    • Ratty filed bug 1130390 to add a link on seamonkey-projects.org to the Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey.
  • The AMO Browsing for SeaMonkey extension, which makes AMO pages a lot more SeaMonkey-friendly, is mature. It was developed by LemonJuice (of Add-on Converter fame), and Tonymec, who tested it and now uses it, supports it enthusiastically. The author proposes to add it as a "built-in extension" besides ChatZilla, DOMi and the like. What do you think? (See also Bug 1145026: AMO Add-On-Descriptions: Add link function leading to SeaMonkey add-on-converter and filling URL input pane; the extension actually does much more than the bug's Summary implies: for instance it gets rid of the stupid "You need Firefox 10 or later" popups.
  • The HTML Validator extension has been updated on June 28 and again (but Beta) on July 2. The Beta version is no more Windows-only: it boasts support for W32/64, L32/64 and Mac 32/64 Universal in a single XPI. It does not officially support trunk builds but in Tonymec's experience it works with them (or at least with the "latest" 2016-06-25 tinderbox-build). It offers a choice of validators: Tidy, SGML (same algorithm as the W3C validator but client-side) or both. Caveat: The toolbar button gives no results for HTML5, you need View Source for that. See the developer's site for details.
  • Some warning messages might be caused by improper toolkit checking for disabled signing. See bug 1291749.
  • In Gecko 52 obsolete toolkit parts were removed in bug 1312143. This may cause problems with older add-ons when SeaMonkey 2,49 hits the road. The 2.49 release notes should mention it. Chatzilla and DOMi were affected and are currently being fixed.

2.x (Last, Current, Next)

2.46 current release

open tracking (0) tracking requests (1) targeted (0) fixed (27)

2.47 skipped

open tracking (0) tracking requests (1) targeted (0) fixed (15)

2.48 planned next release

open tracking (0) tracking requests (2) targeted (1) fixed (19)

2.Next

  • We need someone to work on porting sync 1.5 over to replace legacy sync code. Frg was distracted by other bugs and tasks and didn't look into it yet.
    See: New Firefox Sync has landed in Firefox Nightly. Tracked in:
    • bug 998807 Sync account creation or device pairing fails with exception in BrowserIDManager.
    • bug 1003434 Add support for about:sync-progress.
    • As an alternative to porting sync setting up a sync 1.1 server might work.
      • Pro: We control our own sync server and are not left at the mercies of Mozilla the next time they change their sync system.
      • Con: Can't sync with Firefox (unless someone writes a Sync 1.1 client for Firefox).
  • Stalled. Needs a kick:
    • bug 815954 Click-to-Play: Port bug 812562 (click-to-play blocklisted plugins: reshow urlbar notification as with normal click-to-play).
    • bug 476108 GetShortPathNameW fails under some NTFS junctions [patchlove].
  • Current breakages:
    • Currently FRG fixes breakages faster than we can report them in our fortnightly meetings ;)
  • Mozilla-central bugs that affect us:
    • bug 1298243 'drag/drop: DataTransfer.types is wrong type'. Building SeaMonkey still works but changes probably need to be ported.
    • bug 1276739 'replace list.txt with a region-aware JSON file format to allow different search configs...'. Regressions for SeaMonkey are tracked in bug 1300198.
      • bug 1300198 Move list.txt over to JSON once bug 1276739 is in.
        • This will likely break search engines and needs to be looked at.
    • A lot of these bugs are due to mozilla-central switching from synchronous APIs to Asynchronous APIs.
    • bug 566746 (asyncFormHistory) Form history should use asynchronous storage API. Tracked in:
      • bug 912031 Use Asynchronous FormHistory.jsm in place of nsIFormHistory2 in Suite. Currently being worked on by IanN.
    • The C++ downloads manager backend nsIDownloadManager is being decommissioned. Firefox and Thunderbird have migrated to jsdownloads.
    • bug 825588 Asynchronous JavaScript API for downloads and bug 851471 Decommission nsIDownloadManager. Tracked in:
      • bug 888915 Move SeaMonkey to the new JavaScript API for downloads when nsIDownloadManager is decommissioned. frg is currently looking into the patch from Neil.
  • [frg] suggested to match SeaMonkeys minor version number with then one from Firefox in a future release. This need to be looked into first because some external releng or other stuff might rely on the -3 version offset.
  • [adriank] would like to drop DOMi or at least not bundling it with release builds in bug 1273222. Open for discussion.
  • [ewong] stated that SeaMonkey needs to move to balrog which is the the new updates server/format to do a future 2.47 release.
  • [rsx11m] did open bug bug 1305902 for certificate pinning. Discussion if it should be enabled for SeaMonkey is still underway. Callek commented in the bug after the status meeting.

Feature List, Planning

Bug statistics for the last two (full) weeks: 29 new, 24 fixed, 17 triaged.

  • moderately high triaging effort, back to average number of new bugs filed after the initial spike from the 2.46 release.

Open reviews/flags: 40 review 5 super-review 1 ui-review 15 feedback

  • See Feature List page for major wanted/needed features.
  • TODO:
    • Encrypted Media Extensions / Digital Rights Management
      • bug 1127784 added a preference and UI to enable/disable playback of Encrypted Media Extensions, with UI seen in non-release builds only
      • More work appears to be needed to download necessary 3rd-party Content Decryption Modules, some UI can probably be ported from Firefox
  • Mozilla wants to Move Thunderbird off MoCo infrastructure and onto their own, which will likely affect SeaMonkey as well
  • Fundamental core features Firefox/Mozilla plans to remove:
    • bug 1269807 Remove support for all NPAPI plugins (except Flash)
      • for Gecko 52+ retail, not for 52 ESR branch
    • Gecko 51 will be the last version supporting Windows XP and probably Vista too.
      • This is tracked in bug 1130266. Support for it is moved to ESR 52 in bug 1303827. The plan was approved by Mozilla management.
      • SeaMonkey 2.48 (or 2.49 if built from ESR) and Firefox 51 will be the last retail versions running on WinXP and Vista.
      • At the current time getting 2.46 out is priority one. After release there are several options open which have been discussed. What to do will be decided later:
        • Do ESR and regular releases. Due to a shortage of manpower participants are not sure if this is feasible.
        • Drop XP support with providing an unofficial ESR release optionally.
        • Switch to ESR releases only. Until now only SeaMonkey 2.35 has been built from the ESR branch. After 2.46 a trial 2.42.x / ESR 45 might be built to see if this still works.
        • We need to decide later. frg suggests doing a separate status meeting for this when Mozillas plans become clearer.
        • Several bugs are already in place to remove XP and Vista support from m-c 53+ completly. Seamonkey will not be able to back them out so an ESR would be a must if we still want to support them.
    • bug 1222546 Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
  • Rainer started a Coffee-Mug-Competition. Please let any developers you know to it and post a big Help wanted! sign.
  • SeaMonkey Composer is outdated. Ratty thinks that using backports or parts of KompoZer [7] might solve some of the problems.
  • x64 Linux and for the first time x64 Windows builds will be made official as soon as possible.
    • Unofficial Linux builds just need to be declared official.
    • Providing Windows x64 builds is tracked in bug 482143.
    • System Requirements needs an update. Tracked in bug 1208822.
  • The website and wiki are outdated. InvisibleSmiley no longer maintains the website. For 2.46 the website needs to be updated.
    • bug 1253932 tracked the relnotes for 2.40 and could be used as a start point.
    • mcsmurf knows how to change the site.
  • frg suggested asking for donations in a future release. Probably during startup or more prominently on the website.

Roundtable - Personal Status Updates

Ratty or IanN will handle review requests.

Status Updates from developers - what are you working on, what's the progress, any other comments? (feel free to add yourself to the list if your name is missing and you have interesting status).

Aqualon

Callek

ewong

frg

Waiting for review or feedback:

  • bug 1282227 Port Bug 1071880 and Bug 1142937 to SeaMonkey: Notifiy users of slow addons. Unable to test. Either not working or I am missing something.
  • bug 1296839 Minor Tabbrowser.xml cleanups and changes. 1/3 still needs review?
  • bug 1314892 Provide allowed duplicate list for SeaMonkey. The current patch allows 2.49+ to build. This can not be completly fixed right now due to an l10n problem with DOMi.
  • bug 1319212 Dragging and dropping a url from the desktop onto the browser no longer works. Waiting for Ratty to give feedback.


Working on:

  • bug 521861 After creating news account through clicking news URL Account Wizard is broken.
  • bug 1256724 Update The Data Manager, and the Cookie Viewer so as to treat backspace and delete equivalently on Mac OS X. Took over the bug. Need to figure out some backspace problems in cookieviewer
  • bug 888915 Move SeaMonkey to the new JavaScript API for downloads when nsIDownloadManager is decommissioned. Unbitrotted the patch and did some changes but again get sidetracked this time by bug 1300547 and various build breakages. Started working on it again but got distracted again.
  • bug 1293618 "Clear History from Private Data" completely broken (only test part left). A little on the backburner.
  • bug 1296850 Show standard loading indicator images in tab when busy or progress attribute are set. On the backburner. Need to look at the icons.
  • bug 1331203 Port Bug 1243643 - ["Save Image As..." Not working] to SeaMonkey.
  • bug 1332899 Port Bug 1329926 and remove getURIForKeyword API from SeaMonkey.
  • Mostly did support stuff and fixed some smaller build breakages.
  • l10n de localization (mostly stuff wih didn't make it into 2.48 and 2.49 yet).
  • Trying to clean up the shipped extensions build process so that they ca be included / disabled via confvars.sh. Halfway done. No bug yet.


Titbits:

  • No time for Sync at the moment.


Other things on my mind:

  • --enable-optimize=-O2 should be used for Windows release builds. Linux gcc --enable-optimize optimizes for speed. With VS2015 it optimizes for size. Resulting O2 Windows build feels a lot snappier. Will ask glandium about it.

IanN

InvisibleSmiley

KaiRo

mcsmurf

Misak

Mnyromyr

Neil

Px

Rainer Bielefeld

Ratty

Fixed:

  • bug 1265881 Location Bar Internet Search does not respect ˋEdit → Preferences → Browser → Internet Searchˊ
  • bug 1326195 [sidebars] "Get more sidebars" is not working.
  • bug 1328557 [SeaMonkey] Searchbar regression: No separator between datalist and form history entries.
  • bug 1328897 Update Google Search Plugin (sync with Firefox) [20161231].
  • bug 1328920 Update Yahoo Search Plugin (sync with Firefox) [20161231].
  • bug 1329186 (1) Use asyncOpen2() and (2) change nsILoadInfo.SEC_NORMAL to SEC_ALLOW_CROSS_ORIGIN_DATA_IS_NULL when using a SystemPrincipal.
  • bug 1329401 Rollup updates for FeedConverter.js sync with Firefox as at [20161231].

In Progress/waiting for review:

  • bug 357097 "Play a sound" textboxes are not editable, and don't disable Preview button when nothing has been selected.

Investigating:

Backburner:

  • bug 1325982 Reimplement keyword.URL as keyword.engine [SeaMonkey] Mozilla/core.

Other stuff:

  • Did some reviews and approvals.
  • Bug triage and Bug discussions.
  • Usual end user support and PR in newsgroups and Mozillazine.

rsx11m

Looking into:

  • bug 493217 add UI pref for media.autoplay.enabled
    • Move related items to a new Appearance → Media prefpane
  • bug 1318852 Make labels of cmd_properties action-oriented and context-sensitive, e.g. "Edit Contact", "Edit List", etc.
    • "real" fix

Awaiting new patch for ui-review:

Other:

  • Bug triage, testing, and commenting for SeaMonkey and MailNews Core.
  • End-user information and discussion on MozillaZine.

sgautherie

stefanh

tonymec

Any other business?

  • Status meeting times/days.