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SeaMonkey Meeting Details


  • Who's taking minutes? -> Ratty
  • Nominees for Friends of the Fish Tank:
    • TBD

Action Items

(who needs to do what that hasn't been recorded in a bug) We should assign people to the open items.




Status of the SeaMonkey Buildbot Master and Tree

  • Notes:
    • Callek is winding down his involvement over the next 12 months. Possible replacement: Adrian Kalla (adriank).
    • Callek: Regarding the windows systems, sadly no progress yet. I'm hopeful we can get done sooner than later, I'm realistic expecting it won't be until january at earliest.
    • Ewong will set up a cron job to do semi regular builds on the loaner machine.
      • The loaner machine was decommissioned without notice.
      • Got a new loaner.
    • Windows nightly trunk builds are unavailable due to various bugs such as bug 1092468 and bug 1108970. Migrating our Windows builders to Win2008 and our compiler toolchain to VS2013 would likely solve this and other bustages.
    • There are also some upcoming changes to L10n build system in Q1 2015 (bug 1107635).
    • Even en-US builds have stopped again. The latest trunk nightlies were 2.43a1 dated 9-Jan-2016 for L32 & L64, 6-Jan-2016 for Mac, and 2.42a1 dated 11-Nov-2015 for W32. No 2.44a1 yet, to parallel Firefox 47.0a1 which is being published every night (or every day depending on your timezone).
    • bug 1083689 Langpacks aren't updated when auto-updating SeaMonkey because they aren't uploaded to AMO. The solution requires changes in SeaMonkey RelEng (and possibly AMO).
    • For various reasons we don't have a working SeaMonkey Treeherder.
    • wrt bug 1155011, we already have a Soccoro token. The patches on bug 1155013 require approval and then pushed and the work-around patches backed out.
  • [2nd February 2016]
    • [Tonymec] Building has stopped since 9 January. No tinderbox builds either. [frg] c-c would be clear to me. c-a pulls the wrong Chatzilla and Inspector again. Not sure if this is the cause. See bug 1167346. [IanN] ewong|away has mentioned looking at Jenkins.
  • See RelEng page for the RelEng status history.

Release Train

  • bug 1213721 is a tracking bug for migration from ftp.m.o to S3 for firefox and thunderbird. There's a *scary* long list of dependent bugs over there.
    • How close were our staging scripts to Thunderbird's prior to the S3 migration? They were relatively divergent, primarily because we don't have signing infrastructure and Thunderbird's infra uses MoCo firefox infra, and gets a lot of process for free. We should also consult Fallen to see how Thunderbird did the migration and what sort of issues cropped up.
    • Adrian Kalla is still producing his localized builds. Ratty suggests that we should put out a notice on the default SM start page to tell people where they can download the latest 2.4x release builds (Mozilla-release is currently at Firefox 45 which corresponds to SeaMonkey 2.42).
    • IanN suggests we should follow the Thunderbird release model, doing releases off the ESR-* branch but also the occasional comm-beta "release". L10N Translations might be problematic however rsx11m says using ESR would be "safer" with regard to more stability on releases and not having to cope immediately with bustages from mozilla side, but may require some "deal" to get l10n-relevant minor patches into the releases before the next ESR branch is coming. If you have a patch that applies cleanly from comm-beta to comm-esr45, translations should be done already (of course, that's just simple patches such as label changes or adding a checkbox). rsx11m would go with {comm,mozilla}-esr45 and merge any "safe" patches from comm-beta but that may need some talking to l10n if string changes are involved.
    • Adriank thinks we need an *own* build infra separate from MoCo. What is needed is a buildbot (Adrian use Jenkins), a Windows, Linux, and OSX virtual machine.

  • SeaMonkey 2.39 was released November 8th, 2015.
  • SeaMonkey 2.40 final (tracking bug 1233615) is in progress: in limbo.
    • 2.40 is currently mired in a swamp so deep it makes the Marianna Trenches look like a shallow pool.
      • Uploading is not the problem. It's the problem of the following facts:
        • The S3 migration did away with our site. (It is gone)
        • Our site scripts depended entirely on
        • We need to redo our scripts to play 'pass the bucket' on the S3 server, which requires some S3 figuring out.
    • Without Callek, we are stuck.
    • build #4 are up for all platforms and locales
    • Build #5 was tagged February 16th, but no candidate builds yet
      • Build #5 was manually tagged. Not sure there'll be a build 5.
    • Windows builds aren't signed yet
    • apparently there is an issue with uploading those builds to the new S3 infrastructure [1] See bug 1223633 and bug 1213721
  • comm-release default moves from 2.41 to 2.42 after the merge.
  • Next merges scheduled for March 7 (February 29th: beta→release).
    • mozilla-release is now on 45.0.
    • both mozilla-esr45 and comm-esr45 are established.
  • Useful Firefox Release Schedule link: Releases Scheduling

Extensions and Plugins Compatibility Tracking

  • See Basics page. Please only list current changes here.
  • Addon Compatibility Listings (outdated), altertative list started (currently Rainer Bielefeld is the only active maintainer)
  • Lightning betas are up for 2.40, 2.41, and 2.42.
  • We are looking for a new place to host the Addon Compatibility Listings for the Add-on Converter in order to make it easy to maintain and to serve as the main database for the AMO browsing extension in the future. The details are in this post.
  • Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey
    This tool goes a little further beyond simply modifying install.rdf - it also identifies a few more other things in the code that are Firefox or Thunderbird specific and attempts to change them. Of course, not all extensions can be ported so easily to SeaMonkey since there's only so much an automated tool like that can do.
    • Lemon Juice continues to improve his already impressive Addon Converter. The source is now available on GitHub [2].
    • looking for a better(?) home for extension-converter pages, along with a way to track successful and conversion-failed add-ons, and respective integration into SeaMonkey by add-on or manager overlay [3], bug 1145026.
    • Rainer Bielefeld will no longer update the list of Firefox addons that have been successfully converted by the Addon Converter. -- Rrbd (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2015 (PDT)
    • Ratty filed bug 1130390 to add a link on to the Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey.
    • The AMO Browsing for SeaMonkey extension, which makes AMO pages a lot more SeaMonkey-friendly, seems mature. (It had 9 successive revisions between 27 September and 3 October, and no change since then.) It was developed by LemonJuice (of Add-on Converter fame), and Tonymec, who tested it and now uses it, supports it enthusiastically. The author proposes to add it as a "built-in extension" besides ChatZilla, DOMi and the like. What do you think? (See also Bug 1145026: AMO Add-On-Descriptions: Add link function leading to SeaMonkey add-on-converter and filling URL input pane; the extension actually does much more than the bug's Summary implies: for instance it gets rid of the stupid "You need Firefox 10 or later" popups.
  • The Thunderbird team is now shipping Lightning with Thunderbird. IanN will work on shipping lightning too. Related bugs:
    • bug 516026 Integrate Lightning Into SeaMonkey by Default and Ship SeaMonkey with Lightning Enabled
    • bug 1130854 Package Lightning with Thunderbird for c-c and c-a builds.
    • bug 1113183 Integrate Lightning Into Thunderbird by Default.
    • bug 1130852 Add opt-in dialog to promote Calendar integration [Thunderbird].
  • Ratty has the Firefox Devtools up and running. We can now use the Firefox Devtools debugger in both remote and local mode.
    • Venkman is now totally retired R.I.P..

2.x (Last, Current, Next)


open tracking (0) tracking requests (6) targeted (0) fixed (15)


  • We have official permission to use the Firefox FxA 2.0 sync servers! We need someone to work on porting sync 2.0 over to replace legacy sync code. The finer details of how are so far unknown, but we should have a usable solution before legacy sync is turned off. See: New Firefox Sync has landed in Firefox Nightly. Tracked in:
    • bug 998807 Sync account creation or device pairing fails with exception in BrowserIDManager.
    • bug 1003434 Add support for about:sync-progress.
  • Stalled. Needs a kick.
    • bug 815954 Click-to-Play: Port bug 812562 (click-to-play blocklisted plugins: reshow urlbar notification as with normal click-to-play).
    • bug 476108 GetShortPathNameW fails under some NTFS junctions [patchlove].
  • Current breakages:
    • bug 1209875 did break any builds of 2.41+ containing a localized ChatZilla - bug 1213641 filled
    • No en-US trunk builds later than 30 November yet (or even 11 November on win32). Aurora is currently building on Linux (L32 / L64) only.
  • Mozilla-central bugs that affect us:
    • Changes to Safe Browsing.
    • Firefox is currently changing styles of several Toolkit pages
      • already affected: config.xul for about:config, Will be fixed in SeaMonkey bug 1222816.
      • Toolkit meta bug for about:* pages: bug 1097111 - SeaMonkey tracking in bug 1133743.
      • Modern may need updating as IDs are changing, Default needs forking if we want to roll back to previous styles
      • Ratty restored about:privatebrowsing UI to before it was messed up by Project Chameleon styles [bug 1192276]. Subsequent to Chameleon, Firefox developers have again redesigned the about:privatebrowsing UI to include UI for tracking protection. We should look into picking any changes we like.
      • mozilla-central bug 1189918 and bug 1190465 allow to fork Toolkit style pages for the classic/default/modern theme without harming theme developers. SeaMonkey bug 1022354 will move theme overrides to the theme manifests.
        • affected pages that should be reverted are about:config [bug 1222816], about:addons [bug 1222817], about:support [bug 1222818] (look ok in Modern but hurt in the Default theme).
    • A lot of these bugs are due to mozilla-central switching from synchronous APIs to Asynchronous APIs.
    • bug 566746 (asyncFormHistory) Form history should use asynchronous storage API. Tracked in:
      • bug 912031 Use Asynchronous FormHistory.jsm in place of nsIFormHistory2 in Suite.
    • The C++ downloads manager backend nsIDownloadManager is being decommissioned. Firefox and Thunderbird have migrated to jsdownloads.
    • bug 825588 Asynchronous JavaScript API for downloads and bug 851471 Decommission nsIDownloadManager. Tracked in:
      • bug 888915 Move SeaMonkey to the new JavaScript API for downloads when nsIDownloadManager is decommissioned. Neil has a WIP patch on hand.
    • We've picked up he default for security.tls.version.min from Mozilla Core, but security.tls.version.fallback-limit is new. So we need to consider adding the latter to our preferences UI (bug 1123673).
      • Currently unclear whether or not this should be done after bug 1084025 disable insecure TLS version fallback entirely by default [4]
      • alternative proposal is to make whitelist for acceptable fallback sites available in the UI, which seems to make more sense.
  • bug 1198340 The carousel within Add-On Manager can be used for SeaMonkey specific content. TO DO: Find out what sort of format AMO needs for the carousel. Get our webdev person to create necessary content. Submit content for upload to AMO.
    • Unfortunately nobody knows exactly how because there's no full time developer working on AMO. Ratty was given bug 1009759 as an example. So now we need someone who knows python+django.
    • About specific aspects of this problem, see: bug 1230796, bug 1230804, bug 1230806 and maybe more.
    • [Ratty] The url for the discovery pane is set in a pref. Instantbird points the URL to a chrome XUL document. If we do this we don't have to worry about the python stuff.

Feature List, Planning

Bug statistics for the last two (full) weeks: 24 new, 3 fixed, 13 triaged.

  • low-medium triaging effort, average number of new bugs filed.
  • Ratty has a SeaMonkey build with a working Firefox Devtools!!!! For relevant patches see previous meeting notes.
    • Unfortunately changes in DevTools keep bit-rotting my patch and it's a P.I.T.A. to keep up.
  • Mozilla wants to separate Firefox and Thunderbird, in infrastructure and organizationally, which will likely affect SeaMonkey as well
  • Fundamental core features Firefox/Mozilla plans to remove:
    • bug 1222546 Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
      • if effective for all Toolkit applications, would render most 3rd-party themes disfunct
      • no sufficiently plausible specifics provided 'why' full themes 'must' no longer be supported
      • may prohibit Modern theme being shipped with or installed in SeaMonkey
      • removal is "decided" without any clear alternative envisioned
    • The toolkit help viewer is going away. Neil is working on resuscitating the old XPFE help viewer which apparently has more features.
  • IanN thinks it would be useful to remind people on the newsgroups / forums that they can contribute by triaging. Tonymec will post a reminder to newsgroups / forums. See bug 1092632 (Sm_tri_HowTo) Document how to triage SeaMonkey bugs.
    • The HowTo page has been moved to SeaMonkey/QA/Triage HowTo. No one having objected (or even reacted), bug 1092632 is now RESOLVED FIXED. See its comment #18 for the announcement URLs.

Open reviews/flags: 67 review 5 super-review 2 ui-review 13 feedback

  • See Feature List page for major wanted/needed features.
  • TODO:
    • Encrypted Media Extensions / Digital Rights Management
      • bug 1127784 added a preference and UI to enable/disable playback of Encrypted Media Extensions, with UI seen in non-release builds only
      • more work appears to be needed to download necessary 3rd-party Content Decryption Modules, some UI can probably be ported from Firefox
  • What about declaring linux-x86_64 builds found at and at ftp.m.o as "official" ?

On October 7 two people asked in #seamonkey at a few minutes' interval when there would be "official" 64-bit SM builds for Linux. I pointed them to the x86_64 release at the bottom of the "Other languages" release page for 2.38 and to the x86_64 2.40a2 aurora & 2.41a1 trunk builds at the bottom of the ftp.m.o nightly/latest-comm-* pages but they said these were not "official".

So — how are we going to get out of the following vicious circle? 64-bit builds are not "official" because too few users, and users don't install them (some even prefer compiling their own) because they aren't "official".

Maybe change the online documentation? (perhaps as part of bug 1208822 "System Requirements page needs update"?)

Tonymec (talk) 13:56, 7 October 2015 (PDT)

  • [ewong:] what's the prerequisites of making the Linux64 builds 'official' aside for the issue of getting the tests done for Linux64; but our testing infrastructure is busted. bug 1209378

--- Discussion on locale translations for DOMi and Chatzilla ---

  • [frg] Localized Chatzilla builds currently break suite compile starting with 2.41. See bug 1229810 Port bug 1228444 and bug 1228467 to Chatzilla.
  • [IanN] The tagging has fixed the issue for chatzilla before 2.41 but more is needed for 2.41 and above?
  • [frg] Yes. The optional language xpi will not compile in 2.41 and is broken in 2.42 and up. install.rdf missing. The main xpi is fine.
  • [IanN] Can you spin a bug off with the steps to generate the optional language xpi for 2.41 along with any errors, similarly another one for 2.42 and up. If it ends up being the same fix, not a problem, bugs are cheap. just cc me.
  • [IanN] Ratty: do we need to start looking at how to overlay Chatzilla and DOMi on top of the TB's new merged (c-c + m-c) repository?
  • [Ratty] Not sure. I hope we can continue doing what we have been doing using nested repositories. However in the new merged repository. The comm-central is replaced by the mozilla-central so I don't know how this will work.
  • [IanN] Merging DOMi into comm-central would make SeaMonkey releases easier. We just need to sort out locale building for DOMi.

Roundtable - Personal Status Updates

Status Updates from developers - what are you working on, what's the progress, any other comments? (feel free to add yourself to the list if your name is missing and you have interesting status).





Waiting for review /feedback:

  • bug 1055954 popup exceptions are not added. Please review and let me know if it's ok. Contains string changes and clock for next merge day is ticking...
  • bug 1188348 data manager: domains invisible for Permissions, Preferences, Passwords. Please review. Clock for next merge day is also ticking here...

Working on:

  • bug 1238767 Localized Suite build fails in DebugQA: Stalled. I think the l10 build system might be responsible and tries to pick up files from the wrong location. Adrin Kalla thinks I need to do an l10 merge only. I disagree because the xpi only explicitly supports en-US builds.
  • bug 1250600 Update Safebrowsing in Seamonkey for recent changes in Firefox. Follow up bug of bug 920951 Update SeaMonkey Safebrowsing preferences to sync with Mozilla-Central. Seamonkey misses and api key and maybe even a client id.

Otherwise just looking through the unassigned bug list and see what I might be able to fix.

Tidbits (didn't see the mentiond bugs changed since the last time):

Chatzilla imho only needs one more patch and it should build l10n for 2.41 and up:

Would also need new tags for as stated in:

  • bug 1167346 comm-aurora builds are not building due to DOMi and Chatzilla pulling from revisions earlier...

This might clear up:

  • bug 1244467 Localized Builds: Chatzilla language pack missing from Seamonkey installer package

Other things on my mind:

  • enable-optimize=-O2 should be used for Windows release builds. Linux gcc --enable-optimize optimizes for speed. With VS2013 it optimizes for size. Resulting O2 Windows build feels a lot snappier.
  • Firefox build system seems to change to a python based configure. Check m-c for Works for now with Seamonkey but might break soon.
  • Alternate distribution path for Seamonkey should be evaluated. It still builds and works fine but without builds in the hands of users doesn't make much sense.


  • Usual localising, testing, reviewing, commenting and approving.
  • Fixed:
  • Fixed for c-c:
  • Fixed for m-c:
  • Fixed for m-i/fx-i:
  • Pending tree opening:
  • Pending approval for check in:
  • Pending checkin for dependent bugs:
    • bug 653386 Consider overriding netErrorApp.dtd rather than netError.dtd
  • Checked in pending review:
  • Waiting for feedback/review/information:
  • Fixing review comments before checkin:
    • bug 757230 When using add button for permissions in Data Manager set a displayHost
    • bug 798147 Switch to correct pref pane if pref window already open
  • Working on:
    • bug 1101381 Printing throws error: DEPRECATION WARNING: getWebBrowserPrint is now deprecated, and fully unsupported for multi-process browsers. Please use a frame script to get access to nsIWebBrowserPrint from content
    • bug 1190179 Port |bug 1067325 - Add an option to view html source in a tab| to SeaMonkey
    • bug 1051642 Allow for flat chrome format when packaging extensions
    • bug 943335 [TB] Update icons used in searchplugins (Yahoo, eBay, Wikipedia, Amazon, Bing, Twitter)
    • Various SM Council documents.
    • bug 606683 Allow customization of toolbar in Composer and MailNews Composition
    • bug 639690 [META] Re-arrange code between editor and editorOverlay
    • bug 773979 [META] Switch to new drag and drop api in SeaMonkey
    • bug 657234 Move pasteQuote and pasteNoFormatting into contentAreaContextOverlay
    • File/Folder selection in windows.
  • To Do:
    • bug 639395 Get cmd_fontSize to reflect current state of selected content / content at caret.
    • Prefs-in-a-tab.
    • Create FAQ for Friends of the Fish Tank.
    • Help get composer standalone builds working with --enable-tests.







No doubt everyone is wondering where I've been. The change of job I previously mentioned doesn't help, but on top of that, my mother had to spend the entire of last month in hospital, and she's only just recently started getting better, so will probably need to spend this month in hospital too.

I want to visit her regularly despite the round trip taking two hours, so (on top of my job change) this eats further in to my available time and basically means that I haven't even had a chance to catch up on my bugmail or request queue at all. Sorry about that.


Rainer Bielefeld

All postponed to next meeting in favor of more important release and distribution issues:

currently working on
  • Bug reporting and confirmation as usual
  • Improving usability of dictionaries available for SeaMonkey (low priority)

ToDos / Pending

(Discussion required for all)

  • Donating and so on: Current situation very unsatisfying due to unresolved
    • bug 1165707 - Publish information concerning SeaMonkey e.V.
    • bug 1197554 - Balance sheet (statement of accounts) for donations should be published
    • bug 1191707 - Download: redirect users to detour via Donate / Contribute Request web page
I am planning alternative donation, decision today
  • Pogress bundling lomon_juice's add-on AMO-Browsing-for-SeaMonkey
    • I already have some Ideas for smaller enhnacements. but as far as I know License statement still missing, so we can't do anything with it. this problem blocks
      • bug 1230722 - Include "AMO Browsing for SeaMonkey"-add-on into SeaMonkey release bundle
      • bug 1224520 - Upload "AMO Browsing for SeaMonkey" to AMO
      • bug 1145026 - AMO Add-On-Descriptions: Add link function leading to SeaMonkey add-on-converter and filling URL input pane
      • bug 1151227 - Add-on Manager discovery pane: add Banner with link to Add-on-converter
Any Ideas?

I want to discuss
Currently for some good reasons we have that guideline, but that, of course, requires that owners decide within acceptable time.
  • Example for the problem: bug 56418 - [SM] add folder column so bookmark search results shows where bookmark is in folder hierarchy
  • Suggestion: If a QA volunteer contributes plausible reasons that a bug deserves WONTFIX, he adds the Module Owner to CC and asks for decision: WONTFIX, Assign to someone or at least adds a possible Assignee to CC. For practicability reasons the QA volunteer will do an own decision if within 30 days there is no clear statement that SeaMonkey will do a fix (and be able to do a fix).
  • Basics: I saw "This page was last modified on 3 February 2013, at 05:42." - that is not inspiring confidence. Can someone with competence drop some outdated contents?

Nevertheless I will launch an alternative donation method until end of this week!

Done! -- Rrbd (talk) 04:27, 6 March 2016 (PST)



  • bug 1224907 Bookmarks Manager Search box is missing in SeaMonkey 2.3.9.

Needs review:

  • bug 1235805 Rollup patch: Add preload content policy types for images (bug 1048048) Use the loading document's principal to populate loadInfo for Favicons instead of using systemPrincipal (bug 1119386) nsITaskbarPreview::Invalidate no longer throws when not visible.
  • bug 1222816 Restore about:config UI (Config Editor) to old appearance by overriding Toolkit's Project Chameleon styles.
  • bug 1238428 Workaround the NS_APP_PROFILE_DEFAULTS_{NLOC_,}50_DIR directory keys removed in bug 1234012.

In Progress:

  • bug 1223341 Add the Firefox Devtools to the SeaMonkey UI.


  • Long list of bugs I want to fix but realistically speaking I don't have the time to even look at things.

Other stuff:

  • Did some reviews and approvals.
    • Spent some time burning down my review queue. Not too successful.
    • Helped to onboard a new contributor or two.
  • Bug triage and Bug discussions.
  • Usual end user support and PR in newsgroups and Mozillazine.


Waiting for comm-aurora/beta approval:

  • bug 1245110 Remove help about (now removed) "Ask for each cookie" option in preferences dialog.

Waiting for reviews:

  • bug 851898 Zoom will not go past 300%, used to be able to zoom to +/-800%.

Spun off:

  • bug 1251874 Allow modification of minimum/maximum zoom levels in Content preference pane.

May need retargeting:

  • bug 1123673 Consider exposing security.tls.version.fallback-limit in SSL prefpane to accommodate SSL 3.0 legacy sites.


  • Bug triage, testing, and commenting for SeaMonkey and MailNews Core.
  • End-user information and discussion on MozillaZine.




Any other business?

  • Daylight Saving Time coming up (again...) on March 13; then Summer Time on March 27; winter time on 3 April in NZ and some parts of Australia; no clock change in East and South Asia; etc.
  • tonymec is looking for info about undocumented (but much used) -moz- (i.e. Mozilla-specific) CSS features. Here is a summary of a sample discussion:
Q.: What does display: -moz-box mean? I can't find it at MDN.
R.: It does whatever it does, and you shouldn't use it unless you write Firefox chrome.
Q.: I use userChrome.css
R.: I don't have the last word, but I'm against adding any web-developer-visible documentation about it.
  • For full details about this particular case, see bug 1255315
  • I belatedly thought that maybe there are some SeaMonkey devs who might be more helpful than the Core dev I got when "going through channels". — Tonymec (talk) 18:48, 12 March 2016 (PST)